"A and B both are" vs. "A and B are ... - English Stack Exchange
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A and B are both very good. These all mean the same thing. And here's a couple more sentences that these all come from, via conjunction ...
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"AandBbothare"vs."AandBareboth"vs."BothAandBare"vs."BothofAandBare"?
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AandBbothareverygood;
AandBarebothverygood.
BothAandBareverygood.
BothofAandBareverygood.
Aretheresubtledifferencesbetweenthefoursentencesabove?
meaningdifferencessemantics
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askedMar6,2014at3:26
xmllmxxmllmx
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Idon'tthinkyouwoulduse"of"exceptwithapronoun,e.g."Bothofthemareverygood".
– augurar
Mar6,2014at3:31
@augurar:Ithinkthat'sright.Theotherones(1-3)arenaturalresultsofquantifiersyntax.
– JohnLawler
Mar6,2014at3:53
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@augurar:You'duseitwithapluralnounaswell.Eg:"Bothofthepiesareverygood."Butyeah,"bothofAandB"soundsratheroddtome.
– cHao
Mar6,2014at3:55
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"Subtledifferences?"Hmmmm.
Well,therearesomesimpledifferences;dunnohowsubtletheyare.Depends.
Iagreewith@augurarthat(4)isungrammatical,exceptforunstressedthem.
Thatleaves(rearrangingtheorderalittletoshowtheQ-floatdirectionofboth):
BothAandBareverygood.
AandBbothareverygood.
AandBarebothverygood.
Theseallmeanthesamething.
Andhere'sacouplemoresentencesthattheseallcomefrom,viaconjunctionreduction:
Aisverygood.
Bisverygood.
(orperhapsIshouldsay"thatallthesecomefrom",becausethat'sQ-Float,too.)
Here'swhat'sgoingon.
First,bothmeans*alltwo;
thatis,bothhasthesamesyntacticpatternas
all(integer)X,whichonlyoccurswithX>2
--allthreeofthem,all27ofthem,both/allofthem.
Second,bothandall(andsome,each,any,few,andquiteafewmore)arequantifiers.
Quantifiersarespecialwordsthatnormallymodifynounphrases(asin[1.]above).
Third,inEnglishthereisarulecalled"Quantifier-Float"thatallowssome(butbynomeansall)
quantifiers--bothorallinthiscase--todetachthemselvesfromthenounphrasethattheybind,
andfloatawaytoanadverbnicheintheverbphrase.Without,naturally,changingmeaning.
That'swhathappenedto[2.]and[3.]above;
thosearethetwoavailableadverbnichesinthatverbphrase:
eitherrightbeforethefirstauxiliaryverb--are--orrightafterit.
That'sall,really.
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editedApr13,2017at12:38
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answeredMar6,2014at4:33
JohnLawlerJohnLawler
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Floatis,atleastsometimes,usedtoshiftfocus,andthusthesemantics.
– Kris
Mar6,2014at4:35
Cando.Butthat'snotsyntax;that'spragmatics.Atleast.
– JohnLawler
Mar6,2014at4:39
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Youmightalsohavementioned"AandBaregood".Kindoftheelephantintheroomhere."Both"isredundanthere,butitcanemphasize.Itcanalsoclarify,ifthesentenceismorecomplex(as@JohnLawlerpointsout).Andthenthereis"EachofAandBisgood".Itmeansthesamethingingeneral,butitemphasizesthattheyareeachindividuallygood.(Whereas"both"cansometimessuggestthattheyshareapropertytogether,withoutnecessarilyeachenjoyingitindividually.)
– Drew
Mar6,2014at6:38
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Therearetwoelephants,whichImentioned:AisverygoodandBisverygood.Conjointhemwithandandyoucandovariouskindsofconjunctionreductiononit(checkthelink).AandBareverygoodisonesuchproduct.
– JohnLawler
Mar6,2014at15:03
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AandBbothareverygood.-->bothisparenthetical,="AandB,both,areverygood."
AandBarebothverygood.-->fine
BothAandBareverygood.-->AandBisparenthetical,="Both,AandB,areverygood."
BothofAandBareverygood.-->Noparenthetical.AandB="them"
Yes,there'sadistinctdifferenceinmeaning,thefocus,thatshiftsbetween'AandB','both'and'verygood':useasneeded.
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answeredMar6,2014at4:33
KrisKris
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IsawProf.JL'sanswerafterpostingmine.
– Kris
Mar6,2014at4:37
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