They both are...vs. They are both... | WordReference Forums

Hi, Is this sentence correct:"They both are doctors." Or should I say:"They are both doctors."? Thank you. Forums Dictionarysearch:  English-Spanish English-French English-Italian English-German English-Dutch English-Russian English-Portuguese English-Polish English-Romanian English-Swedish English-Czech English-Greek English-Turkish English-Chinese English-Japanese English-Korean English-Arabic Spanish-English French-English Italian-English German-English Dutch-English Russian-English Portuguese-English Polish-English Romanian-English Swedish-English Czech-English Greek-English Turkish-English Chinese-English Japanese-English Korean-English Arabic-English Spanish-French Spanish-Portuguese Spanish-Catalan French-Spanish Portuguese-Spanish Englishdefinition Englishsynonyms Englishcollocations Englishusage Italiandefinition Spanishdefinition Spanishsynonyms Catalandefinition Spanish French Italian Login Register What'snew Search Rules/Help/FAQ Members InterfaceLanguage Menu Login Register Installtheapp Install EnglishOnly EnglishOnly Youareusinganoutofdatebrowser.Itmaynotdisplaythisorotherwebsitescorrectly.Youshouldupgradeoruseanalternativebrowser. Theybothare...vs.Theyareboth... Threadstarter ticcota Startdate Dec30,2011 T ticcota SeniorMember Japanese Hi, Isthissentencecorrect:"Theybotharedoctors."OrshouldIsay:"Theyarebothdoctors."? Thankyou.   EnquiringMind SeniorMember UK/Českárepublika English-theQueen's Theyarebothpossible.Thelatterisbetter.Simplestatement:Heisadoctor,andsheisadoctor.Theyarebothdoctors. "Heisadoctor,andsheisapiano-tuner,isn'tshe? "No,theybotharedoctors/No,theyarebothdoctors/No,bothofthemaredoctors." Ifyousaytheybotharedoctors,youarestressingtheboth,ashere,tocontradictthepreviousstatement. Inasimplestatementwhenthereisnoparticularneedtostresstheboth,putthebothaftertheverb.   Loob SeniorMember EnglishUK IagreewithEM.TheonlythingI'daddisthattheusualwaytogiveemphasisto"both"wouldbetosay"Bothofthemaredoctors"."Theybotharedoctors"wouldbefarlessusual-inmyusage,anyway.   J JungKim SeniorMember Korean Inthecommonerconstructionlike"Theyarebothdoctors",is"both"partofthesubjectorthepredicate?   bennymix SeniorMember Now,Ontario,Canada.California;Princeton,NJ. English(American). Theyaregreenfrogs,does'greendescribe'they'or'frogs'.   J JungKim SeniorMember Korean bennymixsaid: Theyaregreenfrogs,does'greendescribe'they'or'frogs'. Clicktoexpand... Idon'tknowwhatyoumeanby'describe',whichIthinkisratheravagueterm.   Lun-14 Banned Hindi bennymixsaid: Theyaregreenfrogs,does'greendescribe'they'or'frogs'. Clicktoexpand... That'sdifficulttoanswer.Ithink'green'describesboth--Theyandfrogs. FrogsaregreenORTheyaregreen-"they"mean"frogs". Whatdoyouwanttoexpress,Bennymix?   bennymix SeniorMember Now,Ontario,Canada.California;Princeton,NJ. English(American). Youwouldhavetodefine'predicate',forsomeonetoanswer. JungKimsaid: Inthecommonerconstructionlike"Theyarebothdoctors",is"both"partofthesubjectorthepredicate? Clicktoexpand...   J JungKim SeniorMember Korean bennymixsaid: Youwouldhavetodefine'predicate',forsomeonetoanswer. Clicktoexpand... Fairenough. Letmerephrasemyquestion. Inthecommonerconstructionlike"Theyarebothdoctors",is"both"partofthesubjectornot?   bennymix SeniorMember Now,Ontario,Canada.California;Princeton,NJ. English(American). Foraclauseinstandardorder,it'sratherraretohave'partofa[its]subject'afterthemainverb,no? Considerthesepossiblesentences, Tomattacked,alongwithDaveandBill,meyesterday. Tomattackedmeyesterday,alongwithDaveandBill Tomattackedmeyesterday,abettedbyDaveandBill   Lastedited:Jul18,2016 J JungKim SeniorMember Korean Bothofthemaredoctors. Theyarebothdoctors. Sointhesetwoexamples,doyouthinkit'sfairtosaythat'both'ispartofthesubjectinthefirstbutnotinthesecond?   bennymix SeniorMember Now,Ontario,Canada.California;Princeton,NJ. English(American). Ithinkyouwouldhavetodefine'subject'and'partofasubject'.Theproblemiscomplicatedbythecopula. Inthefirstsentence,'both''them'and'doctors'allrefertothesamething,no?   J JungKim SeniorMember Korean bennymixsaid: Ithinkyouwouldhavetodefine'subject'and'partofasubject'. Clicktoexpand... Inthefirstsentence,youwouldn'tneedanydefinitionof'subject'and'partofthesubject'tosaythat'both'ispartofthesubject,wouldyou? Then,whydoyouneedadefinitionforthesecondsentence? Also,areyousuggestingthat'both'inthesecondsentencecanbepartofthesubject,dependingonitsdefinition?   bennymix SeniorMember Now,Ontario,Canada.California;Princeton,NJ. English(American). So,inthefirstsentenceare'them'and'doctors'partofthesubjectaswell? JungKimsaid: Inthefirstsentence,youwouldn'tneedanydefinitionof'subject'and'partofthesubject'tosaythat'both'ispartofthesubject,wouldyou? Then,whydoyouneedadefinitionforthesecondsentence? Also,areyousuggestingthat'both'inthesecondsentencecanbepartofthesubject,dependingonitsdefinition? Clicktoexpand...   J JungKim SeniorMember Korean bennymixsaid: So,inthefirstsentenceare'them'and'doctors'partofthesubjectaswell? Clicktoexpand... Only'them'.The'doctors'arenotpartofthesubject.It'spartoftheverbphrase'aredoctors',soIdon'tknowwhyyouthinkitcouldeverbepartofthesubject. Justbecause'them'and'doctors'aresemanticallythesamedoesn'tmeanthey'rebothpartofthesamecomponentofthesentence.   bennymix SeniorMember Now,Ontario,Canada.California;Princeton,NJ. English(American). Youhavesaidthat'doctors'isnotpartofthesubject,but'them'is,insentence1): 1)Bothofthemaredoctors. Inthissentence1),thecopulaandwhatfollowsarepredicate. Isuggestthatthispointappliestosentence2): 2)Theyarebothdoctors. 'both'and'doctors'arepartofthepredicate. Inthesamemannerasyouarguefor1),thefactthat'both'and'doctors'havethesamereferentas'they'isasemanticpoint;thesyntaxherein2)indicatesthattheyareinthepredicate. JungKimsaid: Only'them'.The'doctors'arenotpartofthesubject.It'spartoftheverbphrase'aredoctors',soIdon'tknowwhyyouthinkitcouldeverbepartofthesubject. Justbecause'them'and'doctors'aresemanticallythesamedoesn'tmeanthey'rebothpartofthesamecomponentofthesentence. Clicktoexpand...   Lastedited:Jul21,2016 J JungKim SeniorMember Korean Idon'tthinkthatyoucantreat'both'and'doctors'thesamemannerineitherofthesesentences: Bothofthemaredoctors. Theyarebothdoctors. Andletmeshowyouwhy.Ifyounegatethepredicate,yougetthese: Bothofthemarenotdoctors. Theyarenotbothdoctors. Here,'both'hasthesamereferentas'they',butnot'doctors'. AndIthinkthatthisappliestotheoriginalsentencesaboveaswell.No?   bennymix SeniorMember Now,Ontario,Canada.California;Princeton,NJ. English(American). I'mnotsureanyonehassaidthat1)and2),dependingoncontext,havethesamesentencemeaning.Icertainlyhaven't. Perhapsyoucanclarifywhatyoupositionis.Yousaid. {JK:} [1]Bothofthemaredoctors. [2]Theyarebothdoctors. Sointhesetwoexamples,doyouthinkit'sfairtosaythat'both'ispartofthesubjectinthefirstbutnotinthesecond? === Isit"Bothis'partofthesubject'in1)butnotin2)or "Both"is'partofthesubject'in1)and2);or??   J JungKim SeniorMember Korean Benny,you'requotingpost#11,whereIwastryingtoconfirmwhatyousaidinpost#10: bennymixsaid: Foraclauseinstandardorder,it'sratherraretohave'partofa[its]subject'afterthemainverb,no? Clicktoexpand... Youseemedtosuggestinpost#10that'both'ispartofthesubjectinthefirstbutnotinthesecond.Andinpost#11Iwassimplyapplyingyoursuggestiontothetwosentenceswewerediscussing. Certainlyyoushouldknowallthiswithoutmetellingyouthat,soIwonderwhyareyougoingaroundandaroundwiththis.Pleasestopbeatingaroundthebushesandstarttellingmewhatyouthinkisyouranswer.Ifyoudon'tknowtheanswer,thenjustsaythatyoudon'tknowitorthatyoudon'tthinkitmatters,etc.   bennymix SeniorMember Now,Ontario,Canada.California;Princeton,NJ. English(American). Inyoursentence2)[[Theyarebothdoctors]],asIalreadyimplied,'both'isinmyopinion,'partofthepredicate',inyourterms,oraconstituentofthepredicate. Thepredicateis"arebothdoctors.'Thesubjectis"They". IambasingthisanalysisonthefollowingdefinitionsofwhichI'msureyouareaware,butwhichI'mpostingforotherreadersofthethread. PredicatesinEnglishgrammararewordsorphrasesthatexpresstheactionperformedbythegrammaticalsubjectorthestateofthegrammaticalsubject.ThegrammaticalformthatcanfunctionasthepredicateinEnglishgrammaristheverbphrase. [...]Otherconstituentsofthepredicateincludesubjectcomplements,directobject,objectcomplements,indirectobjects,andverbphrasecomplements. LinguisticDefinitionofPredicate|LinguisticsGirl [bennymix:Thataconstituentofapredicaterefersto,modifies,describes,etc.thegrammaticalsubjectisawell-knownand-analyzedphenomenon.] Subjectcomplementsaredefinedaswords,phrases,andclausesthatfollowacopular,orlinking,verbandreferbacktomodify,describe,orcompletethegrammaticalsubjectoftheclause.Subjectcomplementsaregrammaticalconstituentsembeddedinthepredicateofaclause. TheSubjectComplementinEnglishGrammar|LinguisticsGirl --------------------------------------------------- Ifyouhaveanalternativeanalysis,Ihopeyouwillpostitforthebenefitofreadersofthisthread.   yakor SeniorMember Russian JungKimsaid: Inthecommonerconstructionlike"Theyarebothdoctors",is"both"partofthesubjectorthepredicate? Clicktoexpand... "Bothdoctors"isthepartofthepredicatewhichis"arebothdoctors",so,"both"modifying"doctors",referstothepredicatetoo.   Youmustloginorregistertoreplyhere. Share: Facebook Twitter Reddit WhatsApp Email Share Link EnglishOnly EnglishOnly Top