Flat White vs Latte - Peter J Thomson

A flat white coffee isn't just a small latte. They're very different drinks. If you get caught in a cafe that doesn't serve a flat white, then a small latte ... Skiptocontent BusinessBlog CoffeeBlog About Book Podcast Index Contact CoffeeCategories Articles Lists Reviews RecentCoffeePosts Top10CafesinLondon EspressoJulep NitroCoffeeinNewYork Badcoffeeinstockphotos NewYorkCoffeeSubscriptions StarbucksFlatWhite InterviewwiththeCEOofPactcoffee Originsoftheflatwhite Getcoffeepostsbyemail EmailAddress Aflatwhitecoffeeisn’tjustasmalllatte.They’reverydifferentdrinks.Ifyougetcaughtinacafethatdoesn’tserveaflatwhite,thenasmalllattemightbeapassablesubstitute,butthey’restillnotthesamedrink.TheflatwhitevslattedebateiscommonintheUKandUSAwheretheflatwhiteisstillnew. FlatwhiteandaLattefromClimpson&SonsinShoreditch.Theflatwhitemaylooklikeasmalllatte,butthere’smoretoit. Idrinkflatwhitesandmypartnerdrinkslattessowe’veseenthedifferencesbetweenthetwodrinksacross cafes in theUK, USA,NewZealand,Australia,France,Germany,Spain,SwedenandDenmark.I’vehadalotofdiscussionswithbaristasandIthoughtitwas timetoshinesomelightonthecommondebateaboutexactly“whatisaflatwhite?” Howcanaaflatwhite,smalllatteandasmallcappuccinoallusethesameespressoofcoffeeandbeservedinthesamecupbutstillbedifferentdrinks? Espressoshot:Howmuchcoffeeisthereinyourcoffee? Wecanholdthepreparationoftheespressoasaconstantacrossdrinks.Youcanhaveadoubleshotorasingleshotinaflatwhiteorinalatte.Somepeoplewouldsaythatasingleshotflatwhiteisn’treallyaflatwhite,butthat’sabittoopuristandthereareplentyofcafesinNewZealandandAustraliathatdoservesingles.Likewise,some high-endbaristaswillmaketheespressoshotdifferentlyforthedifferentdrinks(suchasaristrettoshotforaFlatWhite).Butonaverage,thecoffeeisnotreallywhatmakesaFlatWhitedifferenttoalatteorcappuccino. Cup:It’snotthesizeofthecup,it’swhatyoudowithit Inmostcafes,aflatwhiteissmallerthanalatte.Butthatstilldoesn’tmeanthataflatwhiteisjustasmalllatte.It’sabitlikesayingthatagardenshedisjustasmallerhouse.Sure,mostshedsaresmallerthanmosthouses,butsizeisn’tthedecisivefactor.Ifabaristahasbeenun-trained(orover-trained)thentheymaythinkthatsizeistheonlydifferencebetweenaflatwhiteandalatte.Ilikeaskingthosebaristaswhatthedifferenceisbetweenacappuccinovsalattebecausetheyhavetofallbackontherealdifferences(beyondjustsize). Milk:Theforgotteningredient Ifweholdtheespressoasaconstant,thenwhatmakesaflatwhitedifferenttoa latteisthewaythemilkispreparedandpoured.Milkisthehiddeningredientinamoderncoffee.Mostpeopleforgethowimportantgoodmilkistoagoodcoffee.Whenmilkisfrothedwithasteamwandtherearethreelayersthatform: Heatedliquidmilkatthebottomofthepitcher Velvetmicrofoaminthemiddleofthepitcher(theseareverysmallbubbles) Stifffroth(thesearelargerbubbles) Theimportantprocessof“stretching”themilkbyfrothing,foldingandswirlingitisdonetomaximisetheamountofvelvetmicrofoambyblendingthelargebubblesandtheliquidmilk.Withoutswirlingandtappingtherewouldstillhavesomemicrofoam,butyou’dneverknowitinthecupbecauseitwouldbelostintheliquidand/orthefroth. PouringaFlatWhiteatFlatWhitecafeinSoho.ThekeytoaFlatWhitevsaLatteisthewaythemilkispoured. AccordingtotheBlueBottlebookCraftofCoffee, thesecretto frothingmilkiskeepingthesteamwandjustatthesurfaceofthemilk(thatpleasingnoise youhearinbusycafes).Good baristaslearntofrothmilkbynoticingwhat worksandwhat doesn’t. Themaindifferencesbetweendrinks(andbetweenbaristas)arisewhenthesteamingisfinishedandit’stimetopourthedrink.Agoodbaristawillswirlthesteamedmilkaroundtofoldthefrothbackintotheliquidandcreateaseamlesspitcherofvelvetmicrofoam.Somemighttapthepitcheronthecountertopoptheworstofthebigbubblesontop(aspartoffoldingthemilk).Butthisisunnecessaryifyou’reswirlingthemilksmoothlyenough. Crema:Agoodtestofaflatwhite Cremaistheorangecaramelisedcoffeethatfloatstothetopofanespressoshot.Ittastessweeterthanthedarkcoffeepartandaddsmouth-feel,butit’sveryvulnerableandcanbedestroyedbysittingtoolongorbeingdrownedinmilk.Acappuccinosacrificesthecremaundertheweightofthestifffrothandalatteusually drownsthecremawithliquidmilk.Oneofthemainwaysoftellingifyouhavebeenservedagoodflatwhiteishowmuchofthemilkhasmergedseamlesslywiththecrematoformanevenduskyorangeswirl.Thiscolorationofthemilkisalsothestartingpointofgoodlatteart. Summary:Howtomakesureyourflatwhite isnotjust alatte Anexcellentbaristacan“freepour”straightfromthepitcherusingthespeedofthepourandthetiltofthejugtochoosehowmuchfroth,foamorliquidmilktopourintoanygivendrink.Amid-levelbaristaismorelikelytodoitlikethis: Flatwhite:Freepourforavelvetmicrofoam mixoffrothandliquid. Cappuccino: Spoonthestifffrothintothecupandthentopupwithapourfromthejug. Latte:Pourtheliquidmilkfromthejugwithaspoontoholdbackthefrothandthentopoffwithadollopoffroth. Likeanyhumanendeavour,thereisabellcurvetotheskillsofbaristas.Themostignorantofbaristaswillmakeaflatwhite,latteoracappuccinoallthesame.Afterall,they’rejusta“milkycoffee”.Ironically,someveryhighendbaristashavethesameattitudebecausetheytakesomuchcarewithfrothing,foldingandpouringtheirmilkthateverycoffeeismadelikeaperfectflatwhitewithanevenmixofliquid,microfoamandfroth. LattevsFlatWhiteatSpeakeasycafeinSoho.Thelatteisofteninaglassbutthat’snotthemaindifference. Theneteffectofthisvarietyofapproachestothemilkisthatthedrinkswillfeeldifferentinthemouthandmaytastedifferentbecauseofthedilutionofthecoffeewithliquid.Intermsofmoodandmouthfeel: FlatWhitehasanevenmixofliquidmilkandsmoothvelvetfoamsoitfeelslikedrinkinganespresso,onlyyummier. Cappuccinohasstifffoamandfeelslikedrinkingbubbleswithabedofcoffeehiddenatthebottom. Latteismilky,hasalittlefoamonthetopandfeelslikedrinkingamilkycoffee. Thebestwaytoreallytestoutthedifferencebetweena flatwhiteanda latte is tobetogotoafewsmallindependentcafesandorderbothaflatwhiteandalatte. Thegoalwhen orderingacoffee isn’treallytoexpress a fixedreality,it’stotryandexpressyourtastesandpreferencesto the barista.Forgetworryingaboutthetechnicalnameofyourdrinkandjustorderbasedonageneralideawhatyouthinkyou’denjoythemost:afrothytreat(cappuccino),amilkywarmsensation(latte),orashort,sharp,shotthatgoesdowneasy(flatwhite). 250thoughtson“FlatWhitevsLatte” Greatarticle.Ire-tweetedit.MywebsitecontainsatravelstorythatfeaturesadescriptionofcoffeeinNZ.Cheers Reply Ihaven’tseen‘stifffroth’oncappuccinossincethe90s Reply CometoDublinandIllmakeastiffcappuccino..hereitscalledDrcappuccino… Reply InGreecewherewehavegonethecoffeeandespeciallycapuccinosalongwaythereisspecialmilkforcafeteriastomakecapuccino.Alsothereisadifferentkindofmilksoldonlytocafeteriastomakecapuccinofreddo(cold).Thismilkwhenwhippedinanelectricshakerproducesaverystifffrothorfoamlikewaterycreamorwateryyoghurt.Wealsomakeespressofreddowhichiswhippedinanelectricshakerandmakesastiffcrematoacoldcoffee.Nowyoumightbewonderingwhysomeonedrinkacoldcapuccinoorcoldespresso.IthinkthishastodowiththehotclimateinGreece. Reply Iwastrainedinthe90’asoIstillmakedrinksprethirdstage.Ilearnedtomakeflatwhitesbyaskingmultiplecustomers.AfterreadingthisarticleIamamazedIamdeadonwithmakingflatwhites.Ilovemakingcappuccinofoamthatstickstoaspoonheldupsidedown.Ialsolovetofreepourmydrinks.IdonotpourlatteartbutthatisOKbecauseIspendmytimeroastingourcoffeetoperfection. Reply Thenyou’renotatanactualcoffeeshop Reply I’malsogettingsickofbaristasaskingmewhetherIwantasmallFlatWhiteoralargeFlatWhite.ImighthavetorevisetheposttonotethataFlatWhitedoeskindofimplyamediumsize.Ithinkit’sbecauseinagoodcafeallthedrinkswillbefreepouredwithaniceevenmixofvelvet,frothandliquidmilk.Hmmmm…. Reply Iorderalargeflatwhite(16oz)fromthecoffeeshop(panthercoffee)inmiamifl,andtheyseemtomakeitflawlessly,samegoeswiththerelargecapsandlattes.Thereaprettywellknownplaceandwinmanylatteartcompetitions,soiguesstheyknowwhattheredoing,butstillalargeflatwhiteisverymuchpossibleifleftuptoskilledbaristas Reply It´slikeaskingfora16ozespresso…Therewouldbeforsureanidiotthatwouldorderit,andadumbenoughbaristathatwillmakeit… Orelse,youcouldperhapsmakea6or8shots16ozflatwhite…butformeit´stheratioofespresso:milkthatmakesaflatwhitewhatitis. Reply Ofcoursetherewouldbedifferenceontheratioofmilk,espressoandthesizeofcupwhenthebaristawouldaskedyouthesizeofyourflatwhite.It’snotadamnedthingaspartofthebaristawhocanmakeyousmallorlargeone,thethingis,isitreallyaflatwhite? Reply WellinAustraliawhereimatrainedbaristathereisahugedifferenceandpeoplegetmadifyoudoitwrong,aflstwhiteverylittlefrothacouplemm,alateehasabout8-15mmandacappuccinohasabout2cmoffrothandtheyareallavailableinsmall,mediumorlarge Reply Soaflatwhiteismilkierthanthelatter,latteismorevelvety…thatshowIdoit..butthenagain..hereinIrelandisonlyafashion/trend IvisitedAustraliaforthefirsttimeandexperiencedtheflatwhitethereandveryimpressed.HowyoustateditishowIunderstoodaflatwhite,latteandcappuccinotobe.BackintheUKtheyarebasicallyashotofespressowithadashofmilk. AmentothatPhilip. Ifyouwalkintoacafeandseeabaristawithaspoonfiddlingaround,spooningfoamandholdingitbackwalkbackoutifyouareinsearchofgoodcoffee! I’manAussiebaristaandifyouneedtoholdbackfoamwithaspoonyou’vetexturedthemilkwrong,dumpitandstartagain. Itisastoundingmeallthisdebateaboutaflatwhitebetweencountries…. AsavisitortoAustraliaisoverymissagoodAustralianflatwhite! Iwillneverforgetseeing3to5coffeehousesinarow…..withonehavingalineupdownthestreetandaroundthecorner…andwewouldwaitinlineforthatone. IthoughtBraziliansmadeexcellentcoffee,asdotheAustrians…butnoonemakescoffeeliketheAustralians….theylivefortheircoffee. Flatwhite…..NorthAmericanshavenoidea….unlesstheybringbaristasfromAustralia! Yepthat’smyviewaswell That’swhatI’velearntbythecostomersinAU.Nowadays,I’mworkinginSouthkoreawherejusttheFlatWhitebecameastrandy,OnceImadeAFlatWhitelikeAussieDrinks,alllocalbaristasaidthat‘It’sJustCoffeeMilkwithBitofVelvetFroth.DefinitelyItisnotFlatWhiteDude’SoI’mjustfollowingtheirInvisibleRules:(. Absolutelyagree Reply Their*andthey’re* Reply HowcomeIfinditsaystheyra5ozdrink Reply InNZwecanbuyalargeflatwhiteanywhere.Ithoughtthatcoffeechainssoldcappuccino,latteandflatwhiteasstandard.Travellingaroundtheworldwehavebeensurprisedathowthflatwhiteseemstobeakiwithing. Reply Iwanttofacebookyourpostaboutthedifferencebetweenflatwhitesandlattesbutthere’snoprettybluebuttonthatmakesthisveryeasyformetodo*sighsdramatically*Thereareavidcoffeedrinkersamongstmyfriendswhoneedtoknow!! Reply Goodpoint!I’veaddedsharebuttons(butthey’renotasprettyasI’dlike).Gladyoulikedthepost. Reply Alatteisamilkycoffee…….aflatwhiteisanexperience! Reply Baristasaresickofbeingaskedtomakeaflatwhitewithoutbeingtoldhowyoulikeit.It’snotagood/badbaristathing.I’vehadseveralvaryingideasofwhataflatwhiteis.Myfinalthoughtisthatpeoplejustwanttoaskforsomethingdifficultanddifferent.90percentofflatwhitesI’vemadewe’rebasedonpretension.Somewere8oznofoam,somewere16ozlattesdisguisedasflatwhites.VeryfewAustraliansevenknowwhatatrueflatwhiteis.Surelyifyoubelievetherearebadbaristas,thenyoucanbelieveinbadcustomers.Perhapsyouarethelatter. Reply Thanksforsharingabarista’seyeviewofthedebate.Sowhat’sa“true”flatwhite? Reply I’mgoingtojustjumpinhere4yearslatecauseIjustcametoyourwebsitelookingfortheanswerforthisquestion. Iusedto(10yearsago)beabaristaatafewverybusyItalianrestaurantsinLondonwherewewerealltrainedbyGaggiaoncoffee.Flatwhitesdidn’texistbackthen. Goingfromyourdescriptioninthearticle,you’vegotlattescorrect,yourdescriptionofaflatwhiteisaproperlymadetraditionalItaliancappuccino,andwhatyou’redescribingasacappuccinoisaburntcappuccino.Ifyousteamthemilktothepointwhereyouhavestifffoamit’sbecauseyou’vedenaturedtheproteinwhichwillgiveabittertasteandwon’tmixwiththecoffee. Ithinkthisallcomesaboutbecauseof90s“Cappuccinos”thatlooklikeaMrWhippyicecream. Reply Baristasaresickofbeingaskedtomakeaflatwhitewithoutbeingtoldhowyoulikeit.It’snotagood/badbaristathing.I’vehadseveralvaryingideasofwhataflatwhiteis.Myfinalthoughtisthatpeoplejustwanttoaskforsomethingdifficultanddifferent.90percentofflatwhitesI’vemadewe’rebasedonpretension.Somewere8oznofoam,somewere16ozlattesdisguisedasflatwhites.VeryfewAustraliansevenknowwhatatrueflatwhiteis.Surelyifyoubelievetherearebadbaristas,thenyoucanbelieveinbadcustomers.Perhapsyouarethelatter. Reply Thanksforsharingabarista’seyeviewofthedebate.Sowhat’sa“true”flatwhite? Reply I’mabaristainAustralia.Beforethis,IgrewupinGB,usedtoenjoylattesandthenstartedorderingtheStarbucksflatwhiteswhentheycamearound.IpreferredtheratioofcoffeetomilkbutIremembernodifferenceintexture. Soaflatwhiteoverhere,whereitoriginatedisdifferenttoUK,soIhavebeentaught.ItISaboutthetexture.Zarraffa’scoffee(anAfricanthemedchain,cafeareaitselfismuchlikeStarbucks)taughtmetonotaddtextureintothemilk,holdingaperfectcremaabovethemilk.Mostcoffeeshopswillfreepourandstillmaintainthisbutaspatula/spooncanbeusedtoholdbackALLtexture.However,independentcafeswillstillgetitwrongandaddtextureanditoftenvergesonalatte. ImustsayIdidfinditinterestinghowdifferentaflatwhiteisinUKwhereIalwaysthoughtitwasmorecoffee-rich,towhereitoriginatedfrominAustralia. IpersonallypreferflatwhitesinUK. Butthat’sbevauseIlikestrongerlattesinasmallcupwithsilkysmoothtexture.IjustorderalattehereinAus. Reply TheflatwhiteactuallyoriginatedinNewZealand,justlikeLorde,RussellCrowe,CrowdedHouseandthePavlova!Ifyouwanttotastearealflatwhite,NZiswhereyouwillfindit. Reply *onethirdofCrowdedHouse🙂 Don’tforgettheHobbit. ItisclaimedbyAustraliansthattheflatwhitewasfirstservedinSydney,Australiainthe1980satMoorsEspressobar. Absolutely Ah.Theclassicdebateandalwaysstealingourstuff.AtleastinNZyoucangoanywhereandexpectgreatcoffee.Werockthosebeans!!!!!I’mintheprocessofdiscoveringgreatcoffeeinIreland. Ithinkthatthe“flat”inflatwhitereferstonobubbles,asinthethemilkisnotfrothyorvelvetyatall.Iabsolutelyrestrictallthebubblystuff.Itisnothingmorethanhotmilk.Afterthepour,thecoffeeisasingle,homogeneouscolour.Theclueisintheverynameofthedrink.Alotofnewwavebaristiwhohavebeentrainedinalotofthemoderntrendychainstomakevelvetfoameverytime.Andyes,IamAustralianandhavebeenabarista. Reply IamalsoahighlyexperiencedbaristalivinginAustraliamywholelife.Grownupwithflatwhitesmywholelife.WhenIwasintroducedtoStarbucksandAmericanflatwhitesitwasnotevenclosetowhatIknew.JustanAmericanlattewithadifferentname.Flatwhiteshavealwaysbeenjustalayerofmicrofoambutnotenoughtobreakthecrema.Asoneofmyemployersoncetoldme,justenoughmicrofoamtodolatteart.Ithinkthatwasjustamarketingploytoshowoffbarista’sespeciallyinMelbournewhichhascreatedallthisconfusion.Usuallywhatyouexpecttogetwhenyouorderaflatwhiteiswhatthenamesuggests.Awhitecoffee(lot’sofmilk)withnofoam(flat).There’snodripcoffeeinAustraliasowhitereferstoespressowithmilkjustlikeablackcoffeereferstoespressowithoutmilk.Hencetheflatwhite.LongblacksareAmericanosandshortblacksareespresso’s. Yesyesyes!!!FinallysomeoneIagreewith! (NotethatinItalianthemasculinepluralgoesfrom-o-to-i-somacchiatotomachiatti.Thefemininepluralgoesfrom-a-to-e-sobaristatobariste.) Lol.Iagree Reply Justgotmyfirstcoffeemachine,butlookingforsomeniceflatwhitecoffeecupsalittlebitdifferenttothenormalcups Reply Bodumdosomeinterestingdoublewalledglasscoffeecups. Reply Aflatwhiteisasmall,strong,milkycoffee.AsfarasI’mconcerned,asabarista,thebestwayis2shots,silkymilkandtotaldrinknobiggerthan7oz. Reply Aflatwhiteisasmall,strong,milkycoffee.AsfarasI’mconcerned,asabarista,thebestwayis2shots,silkymilkandtotaldrinknobiggerthan7oz. Reply That’saPiccolochampion…. Reply Howdoyougetagoodcupofcoffeeintheseplaces?Seriously.Nomilk,nocream,justanicecupofcoffeefromafrenchpress,withalltheessentialoilsandaromas,andevenasmilefrombehindthecounter.Isthatjustsomethingyoucan’thaveinacafethathastakensteamingmilkandpouringitintoanadvancedartform?SincetheadventofStarbucksandcafeswithexpressomachines,youcan’tevengetagoodcupofexpresso,andcertainlynotasimplecupofwellmadecoffee.Iwalkin,lookforcoffee,andwalkout.Cafesshouldhavecoffeeonthemenu,inmyopinion. Reply YoumostdefinitelycanorderaFrenchpressatanyStarbucksandsurelymostcafés.Allyouhavetodoisputintheefforttoaskthebarista.Andperhaps“coffee”isn’tonthemenubecausemostplaceshopeyourealisethatit’sa“coffeehouse”andtherefore,obviouslyhasagoodregularcupofcoffeewaitingforyouifyousochooseit. Reply GotoHawaiiandNewZealand(southisland),frommyexperiencetheyhaveamazingblackcoffee. Reply AnywhereinNZ Reply Ohyeah.Yousoundlikeyouknowwhatyou’retalkingaboutMr.Expresso.(Interestingarticlebtw) Reply Howdoyougetagoodcupofcoffeeintheseplaces?Seriously.Nomilk,nocream,justanicecupofcoffeefromafrenchpress,withalltheessentialoilsandaromas,andevenasmilefrombehindthecounter.Isthatjustsomethingyoucan’thaveinacafethathastakensteamingmilkandpouringitintoanadvancedartform?SincetheadventofStarbucksandcafeswithexpressomachines,youcan’tevengetagoodcupofexpresso,andcertainlynotasimplecupofwellmadecoffee.Iwalkin,lookforcoffee,andwalkout.Cafesshouldhavecoffeeonthemenu,inmyopinion. Reply Espresso Reply +1 Reply THANKYOU!!!Lol Reply YoumostdefinitelycanorderaFrenchpressatanyStarbucksandsurelymostcafés.Allyouhavetodoisputintheefforttoaskthebarista.Andperhaps“coffee”isn’tonthemenubecausemostplaceshopeyourealisethatit’sa“coffeehouse”andtherefore,obviouslyhasagoodregularcupofcoffeewaitingforyouifyousochooseit. Reply GotoHawaiiandNewZealand(southisland),frommyexperiencetheyhaveamazingblackcoffee. Reply AnywhereinNZ Reply Ohyeah.Yousoundlikeyouknowwhatyou’retalkingaboutMr.Expresso.(Interestingarticlebtw) Reply DoyoujustLOOKforthecoffee,ordoyouask?Starbucks,forone,shouldALWAYShavebrewedcoffeeavailable(manywiththeCloverbrewer,whichgivesyoumanyroastoptionsalldaylong),butwhilenot“onthemenu,”youshouldbeabletoaskforaFrenchpressanytime.Ifyouknowastorethatyouthinkdoesn’tofferthis,askthemanager.Someemployeesaren’tawaresimplybecauseit’snotaskedforoftenenough! Reply Myhusband,daughterandIjustreturnedfromavisittoLondon.WestayedinHampsteadandstoppeddailyatGingerandWhiteforourflatwhitefix–addictiveanddelicious. Reply Myhusband,daughterandIjustreturnedfromavisittoLondon.WestayedinHampsteadandstoppeddailyatGingerandWhiteforourflatwhitefix–addictiveanddelicious. Reply FlatWhite?!Ratherunfortunate(andevendepressing)nameforanespressobaseddrinkthatshouldgiveyouazingakintoseeingthatredFerrariparkedoutsidethe“ThirdNoiseCafe”.CoffeeisstartingtoturnintotheabominationthatStarbucksis.Espressoshouldnotbelikeliquefiedlicoriceandthatpatheticluke-warmliquidunderthefoamofaCappuccioshouldnotremindoneassomebodyonthisforumsaidof“CambellsTomatoSoup”orchicoryorevenworseitshouldnotleaveyouwonderingifthat’swhaturinetasteslike.Uncaffeperpiacere.Ristretto?Lungo?Macchiato?Lungomacchiato?Doppio?Doppiomacchiato?Cappuccio?Cappucciodoppio?Cappucciodoppiosenzaschuima?Caffecorretto?Lattemacchiato?Nocciolato?GranitadiCaffe.Affogato?Anyone? Reply Iratherthinkaffogatoismuchmoredepressingname….Itmeansdrowned! Reply ⬆GoodoneChelle! Reply Ristretto-lesswaterthroughtheshot,abouthalfbutwiththesameamountofgrinds. Lungo-longshotwithmorewater,sameamountofgrinds. Macchiato-tomark/marked,traditionalmacchiatoconsistsofespresso“marked”withadollopoffoam. LungoMacchiato-longshotmacchiato Doppio-double DoppioMacchiato-twoespressoshotsw/adollopoffoam Affogoto-gelato(oricecream)withespressooverthetop LatteMacchiato-Lattewithshotspouredontopofthefoam,insteadofmixedinwiththepouredmilk? “senzaschuima?Caffecorretto?…Nocciolato?GranitadiCaffe”Thoseescapedme.However,notbadforan“abominable”Starbucksbarista,no?It’sallabouthowmuchthebaristacares,notaboutthecompany. Bytheway,Ireallylikedthisarticle.I’vehadmaybetwopeoplerequestflatwhitesandcouldn’tfigureouthowtheyweredifferentthanalatte(thoughonepersonsworeitwasacompletelynofoamlatte).Thismakesmoresense,andsinceI’vebeenpracticingmylatteart,it’swhatI’vebeendoingwhichisreallyhelpfultoknow. Reply *schiuma–foam,senzaschiuma–foamless. Caffècorretto–espressowithbooze,eggrappaorsambucca,dependingonregion. Nocciolato–it’saCampagnathing,Coffeewithcocoaandhazelnutflavouring(thesamestuffusedtomakenutella). Granita–aflavouredicedrink,andinthiscasemadewithcoffee,andusuallytoppedwithcreamandsweetened. Reply Macchiatomeansstained.Englishhasthecognateimmaculate,asintheimmaculateconception,asinnot‘stained’withoriginalsin.Fascinatingstuff? And,yeah,latte’macchiatoismilk‘stained’withcoffee. Inbell’Italia,sometimeshearthephrase“latte’caffe'”tomeanaverymilkycoffeeorrathermilkthathascoffeeaddedratherthantheotherwayaround. AndIamsureyou’veheardatleastoneofthestoriesbehindthecappuccino.It’snamedfortheCapuchinfriars,anddependingonthestoryitsmightbebecauseitwasinventedbyacapuchin,orbecauseitlookslikeacapuchin(theywearbrown,hoodedcloaks,andaretonsured). Reply Really?!Myunderstandingwasthatmacchiatotranslatesto‘marked’andwasespressomarkedwithmilkratherthanthereverse?!?!! Reply FlatWhite?!Ratherunfortunate(andevendepressing)nameforanespressobaseddrinkthatshouldgiveyouazingakintoseeingthatredFerrariparkedoutsidethe“ThirdNoiseCafe”.CoffeeisstartingtoturnintotheabominationthatStarbucksis.Espressoshouldnotbelikeliquefiedlicoriceandthatpatheticluke-warmliquidunderthefoamofaCappuccioshouldnotremindoneassomebodyonthisforumsaidof“CambellsTomatoSoup”orchicoryorevenworseitshouldnotleaveyouwonderingifthat’swhaturinetasteslike.Uncaffeperpiacere.Ristretto?Lungo?Macchiato?Lungomacchiato?Doppio?Doppiomacchiato?Cappuccio?Cappucciodoppio?Cappucciodoppiosenzaschuima?Caffecorretto?Lattemacchiato?Nocciolato?GranitadiCaffe.Affogato?Anyone? Reply Iratherthinkaffogatoismuchmoredepressingname….Itmeansdrowned! Reply ⬆GoodoneChelle! Reply Ristretto-lesswaterthroughtheshot,abouthalfbutwiththesameamountofgrinds. Lungo-longshotwithmorewater,sameamountofgrinds. Macchiato-tomark/marked,traditionalmacchiatoconsistsofespresso“marked”withadollopoffoam. LungoMacchiato-longshotmacchiato Doppio-double DoppioMacchiato-twoespressoshotsw/adollopoffoam Affogoto-gelato(oricecream)withespressooverthetop LatteMacchiato-Lattewithshotspouredontopofthefoam,insteadofmixedinwiththepouredmilk? “senzaschuima?Caffecorretto?…Nocciolato?GranitadiCaffe”Thoseescapedme.However,notbadforan“abominable”Starbucksbarista,no?It’sallabouthowmuchthebaristacares,notaboutthecompany. Bytheway,Ireallylikedthisarticle.I’vehadmaybetwopeoplerequestflatwhitesandcouldn’tfigureouthowtheyweredifferentthanalatte(thoughonepersonsworeitwasacompletelynofoamlatte).Thismakesmoresense,andsinceI’vebeenpracticingmylatteart,it’swhatI’vebeendoingwhichisreallyhelpfultoknow. Reply *schiuma–foam,senzaschiuma–foamless. Caffècorretto–espressowithbooze,eggrappaorsambucca,dependingonregion. Nocciolato–it’saCampagnathing,Coffeewithcocoaandhazelnutflavouring(thesamestuffusedtomakenutella). Granita–aflavouredicedrink,andinthiscasemadewithcoffee,andusuallytoppedwithcreamandsweetened. Reply Macchiatomeansstained.Englishhasthecognateimmaculate,asintheimmaculateconception,asinnot‘stained’withoriginalsin.Fascinatingstuff? And,yeah,latte’macchiatoismilk‘stained’withcoffee. Inbell’Italia,sometimeshearthephrase“latte’caffe'”tomeanaverymilkycoffeeorrathermilkthathascoffeeaddedratherthantheotherwayaround. AndIamsureyou’veheardatleastoneofthestoriesbehindthecappuccino.It’snamedfortheCapuchinfriars,anddependingonthestoryitsmightbebecauseitwasinventedbyacapuchin,orbecauseitlookslikeacapuchin(theywearbrown,hoodedcloaks,andaretonsured). Reply Really?!Myunderstandingwasthatmacchiatotranslatesto‘marked’andwasespressomarkedwithmilkratherthanthereverse?!?!! Reply Wehavereturnedtothe‘FlatWhite’IssueagainuphereinScotland. Ihavereadandre-readthroughyourpostsconcerningthesubject,andpostedononeawhileago,butmoretimehaspassedandweandtheindustryhavematured. ItotallyagreewithyourdescriptionofaFlatWhiteaslaiddown.Oursinourcoffeebaris: –6ozglasscup,tulip –doubleespressoofanyblendorSO –toppedupto6ozwithcorrectlystretchedmilklikeyouwoulduseforalatte. Myboneofcontentionwiththeindustryjustnow(especiallyCostaetc)isthattheyseemtobepromotingthatCappuciniandLattearelesserdrinksbecausethemilkisofalesserquality. Ithinkweshouldmovetowardsallbaristibeingatagoodenoughskillleveltoproduceallthevariationsofmilkbasedcoffeeaccordingtotheirratiolevelsratherthanlackofquality? Reply Yourflatwhitesoundsyum! Reply Wehavereturnedtothe‘FlatWhite’IssueagainuphereinScotland. Ihavereadandre-readthroughyourpostsconcerningthesubject,andpostedononeawhileago,butmoretimehaspassedandweandtheindustryhavematured. ItotallyagreewithyourdescriptionofaFlatWhiteaslaiddown.Oursinourcoffeebaris: –6ozglasscup,tulip –doubleespressoofanyblendorSO –toppedupto6ozwithcorrectlystretchedmilklikeyouwoulduseforalatte. Myboneofcontentionwiththeindustryjustnow(especiallyCostaetc)isthattheyseemtobepromotingthatCappuciniandLattearelesserdrinksbecausethemilkisofalesserquality. Ithinkweshouldmovetowardsallbaristibeingatagoodenoughskillleveltoproduceallthevariationsofmilkbasedcoffeeaccordingtotheirratiolevelsratherthanlackofquality? Reply Yourflatwhitesoundsyum! Reply Annoyinglyforme,myfirsteverFlatWhitewasinaCostaCoffee—what’smoreannoyingisthatit’sbeenthebestonethatI’vehadtodate.I’vetriedahandfuloftimessincethentogetwhatIthoughtwasgoingtobeaFlatWhite,butinsteadIjustgetabigpileoffrothoveramilkycoffee. I’llmainlyorderanEspresso,MacchiatoorAmericanoandshyawayfromotheroptionsasIdon’tlikethemilktotakeoverthetasteandtexture.ThethingIlikeaboutaFlatWhiteispoint4.inyour‘WhatisaFlatWhite’post—“freepouredmilksothatthefoamisfoldedthroughthewholedrinkandthereisnodiscernablelayerseparationbetweenliquidcoffeeandfoam”. PeoplemaysayI’mdrinkinginthewrongplaces(CardiffnotLondon),andperhapsIam,butifonlytherewasastandardsoyouknewwhatyouweregoingtoget.I’mgoingtobeabitmoreinquisitivenexttimeIorder,andcheckthatthebaristaandIareonthesamepagebeforeanymilkgetspoured,hopesgetcrushedandtearsstarttofall. Reply Samuel, Ifyou’restillinCardiff,tryThePlanCafe(intheMorganArcade),TorreCafe(outsidethecastle)andWaterlooTea(threebranchesnow).Allofthemshouldbeabletomakeyouaflatwhitethat’llknockthesocksoffaCostaCoffeeflatwhite(forwhatit’sworth,I’veneverhadagoodflatwhiteatCosta,butthenI’veonlytriedmaybetwoorthreebeforegivingupindisgust;asfarasI’mconcerned,aCostaflatwhiteiswaytoobig). Brian. Reply Samuel,IlikeCostaflatwhitesaswell.Youcanordertheminanindependentcoffeeshopbuttheyareveryvariable. WevisitNorthernIrelandfrequentlyandourlocalrestaurant,Harry’sShack,can’tproduceagoodespressotosavetheirlivesbuttheirflatwhitesareexquisite. LavazzaatBelfastcityairportproducesacappuccinothatisneartoaflatwhite.StarbucksintheUKarebestavoidedallround. Reply Peter, Justaquicknotetosay“thankyou.”Ireadreviews/articleslikethisallthetimeandtypicallyendupsearchingformoreinfobecausethefirstfewpostsIreadarelackingsubstance.Thenontherareoccasion,Ireadapiecelikethisoneandjustsimplyappreciatehowwellsomepeoplewrite.IreallylikedyourdescriptionofFlayWhite–articulate,informativeandconcise.Thanksagain! Reply Peter, Justaquicknotetosay“thankyou.”Ireadreviews/articleslikethisallthetimeandtypicallyendupsearchingformoreinfobecausethefirstfewpostsIreadarelackingsubstance.Thenontherareoccasion,Ireadapiecelikethisoneandjustsimplyappreciatehowwellsomepeoplewrite.IreallylikedyourdescriptionofFlayWhite–articulate,informativeandconcise.Thanksagain! Reply Excellentdescription.IhavefamilyvisitingfromoverseasandIhadneverheardofaflatwhite.AsitturnsoutIhavebeenmakingthemathomeandcallingitalatte.IguessIdidn’tknowhowlatteswe’resupposedtobemade.:O Reply Excellentdescription.IhavefamilyvisitingfromoverseasandIhadneverheardofaflatwhite.AsitturnsoutIhavebeenmakingthemathomeandcallingitalatte.IguessIdidn’tknowhowlatteswe’resupposedtobemade.:O Reply Iagreethataflatwhiteshouldonlybeservedin7ozandwhenofferedwhichsizeIknowI’minthewrongplace I’dquestionhowasingleshotfwcanhitthemark. Reply Oksoafter20yearsofdrinkingandmaking,itdoesnotchange: 6-8ozdoubleshotristretto,slightlycoolermicrofoamtexturedmilk,freepoursothemilkanddoubleespressocombinetoasilkyconsistency.Preferenceevencoverbetweencremaandmilk,(flatandwhite).Nopretention,butdoneproperlyinthehandofanexperiencedbarista,tasteofheaven. Reply THANKYOU!…prettysuretheristrettoshotisjustasvitalastherestofit….. Reply Oksoafter20yearsofdrinkingandmaking,itdoesnotchange: 6-8ozdoubleshotristretto,slightlycoolermicrofoamtexturedmilk,freepoursothemilkanddoubleespressocombinetoasilkyconsistency.Preferenceevencoverbetweencremaandmilk,(flatandwhite).Nopretention,butdoneproperlyinthehandofanexperiencedbarista,tasteofheaven. Reply THANKYOU!…prettysuretheristrettoshotisjustasvitalastherestofit….. Reply Ireadthearticleandstillhaveabsolutelynoideawhatthedifferenceisbetweenaflatwhiteandlatte. Fromthearticle,alattehasmilkandfroth,butaflatwhitehasfrothandmilk. Baffling. Reply microfoam.It’sthecreamymouthfeelthatthemicrofoamgives,andifcombinedwithristrettoasopposedtoespresso,tendstobe‘sweeter’andmoredelicateoverall.It’slikethepolaroppositeoftheburnt,overroasted,doublelong,bitter‘espresso’youmightgetthatreducescoffeetoacaffeinedeliverysysteminsteadofthedelicious,complex,beverageitcanbe. Reply Ireadthearticleandstillhaveabsolutelynoideawhatthedifferenceisbetweenaflatwhiteandlatte. Fromthearticle,alattehasmilkandfroth,butaflatwhitehasfrothandmilk. Baffling. Reply microfoam.It’sthecreamymouthfeelthatthemicrofoamgives,andifcombinedwithristrettoasopposedtoespresso,tendstobe‘sweeter’andmoredelicateoverall.It’slikethepolaroppositeoftheburnt,overroasted,doublelong,bitter‘espresso’youmightgetthatreducescoffeetoacaffeinedeliverysysteminsteadofthedelicious,complex,beverageitcanbe. Reply Asabarista,thereareafewmoredifferencesbetweenaflatwhiteandalattethatyou’vemissedout. Flatwhitesshouldbeservedatalowertemperaturethanlattes,around54°C.Wholemilkisnormallyusedasstandardasitfrothssignificantlybetter,andgivesitmoreofavelvetyfeeltoit,thoughyoucanofcourserequestothermilks. Themaindifferencebetweenaflatwhiteandalatteistheproportionofespressotomilk,theplaceIworkatservesitina6ozcup,whichreallygivesitastrongerfeel. Themostirritatingthingiswhencustomersattempttoordera“largeflatwhite”asitsimplydoesn’texist,yettheyrefusetolistenandclaimthatthey“orderitatCostaallthetime” *sighs* Reply What?Abaristathatthinksa“largeflatwhite”doesn’texist?That’scrazytalk.Flatwhitescanabsolutelybescaledup.Alargeflatshouldsimplyincreasetheamountofcoffeetosustainthatnicekickofaflatwhite.Withthesamemicrofoamcharacterasaregularflat,youjustneedabasketthatcanfitmorethan21grams.Reallypackitin,andmakemealargeflatwhite,nosugarthanks. Reply what?nosuchthingaslargeflatwhite?ifaregularflatwhiteisadoubleshotofespressoinaslightlysmallercup,thenfillrestwithmicrofoam.ThenalargeFlatwhiteisaquadroupleshot,inalargecupandfillrestwithmicrofoam. Reply Asabarista,thereareafewmoredifferencesbetweenaflatwhiteandalattethatyou’vemissedout. Flatwhitesshouldbeservedatalowertemperaturethanlattes,around54°C.Wholemilkisnormallyusedasstandardasitfrothssignificantlybetter,andgivesitmoreofavelvetyfeeltoit,thoughyoucanofcourserequestothermilks. Themaindifferencebetweenaflatwhiteandalatteistheproportionofespressotomilk,theplaceIworkatservesitina6ozcup,whichreallygivesitastrongerfeel. Themostirritatingthingiswhencustomersattempttoordera“largeflatwhite”asitsimplydoesn’texist,yettheyrefusetolistenandclaimthatthey“orderitatCostaallthetime” *sighs* Reply What?Abaristathatthinksa“largeflatwhite”doesn’texist?That’scrazytalk.Flatwhitescanabsolutelybescaledup.Alargeflatshouldsimplyincreasetheamountofcoffeetosustainthatnicekickofaflatwhite.Withthesamemicrofoamcharacterasaregularflat,youjustneedabasketthatcanfitmorethan21grams.Reallypackitin,andmakemealargeflatwhite,nosugarthanks. Reply what?nosuchthingaslargeflatwhite?ifaregularflatwhiteisadoubleshotofespressoinaslightlysmallercup,thenfillrestwithmicrofoam.ThenalargeFlatwhiteisaquadroupleshot,inalargecupandfillrestwithmicrofoam. Reply Thankyouforthearticle. I’mnotmuchofacoffeedrinker,whenIwenttoNewZealandandhadaflatwhiteinRaglanIwashookedhad2or3adaylike2dollarseach.CamebacktoUSandlookedforaflatwhite.AskingforithopeingthattheywouldknowwhatIwastalkingabout.Thentheysayoh,youmeana4.50latte,Ihadalatte,andit’sjustnottheSame. Reply HereintheUS,thebestflatwhiteI’vehadisatPerq’sinSarasota(notachain),theyreallyknowwhatthey’redoing,arealpleasure. Reply Thankyouforthearticle. I’mnotmuchofacoffeedrinker,whenIwenttoNewZealandandhadaflatwhiteinRaglanIwashookedhad2or3adaylike2dollarseach.CamebacktoUSandlookedforaflatwhite.AskingforithopeingthattheywouldknowwhatIwastalkingabout.Thentheysayoh,youmeana4.50latte,Ihadalatte,andit’sjustnottheSame. Reply HereintheUS,thebestflatwhiteI’vehadisatPerq’sinSarasota(notachain),theyreallyknowwhatthey’redoing,arealpleasure. Reply FlatWhiteismydrink.IlikeitandIknowinmostcasesI’mgoingtogetastrongcoffeebutwithmilkwhichiswhyIalwaysgoforit. LastweekIsentanemailtoCostacomplainingaboutthequalityofmylast5FlatWhites.MydisappointmenthasledmetowantingtonowcreatethemathomeandnotrelyonmylocalCosta(there’snofantasticindependentswhereIlive)buttheonequestionI’mstrugglingtogetananswertoisthecupsize…6ozor8oz?OriginCoffeeonVimeosaysnobiggerthan8andthat’swhatIuseathomebutwhilstlookingforanewmugIfoundthishttp://www.coffeehit.co.uk/cafe-supplies/coffee-cups/blue-flat-white-cup-saucer-160ml-6ozwhichsuggestsIshouldbeusinga6ozcupforFlatWhites? Would6ozwithadoubleshotcreateaperfectflatwhiteorshouldIstickwith8oz? Reply FlatWhiteismydrink.IlikeitandIknowinmostcasesI’mgoingtogetastrongcoffeebutwithmilkwhichiswhyIalwaysgoforit. LastweekIsentanemailtoCostacomplainingaboutthequalityofmylast5FlatWhites.MydisappointmenthasledmetowantingtonowcreatethemathomeandnotrelyonmylocalCosta(there’snofantasticindependentswhereIlive)buttheonequestionI’mstrugglingtogetananswertoisthecupsize…6ozor8oz?OriginCoffeeonVimeosaysnobiggerthan8andthat’swhatIuseathomebutwhilstlookingforanewmugIfoundthishttp://www.coffeehit.co.uk/cafe-supplies/coffee-cups/blue-flat-white-cup-saucer-160ml-6ozwhichsuggestsIshouldbeusinga6ozcupforFlatWhites? Would6ozwithadoubleshotcreateaperfectflatwhiteorshouldIstickwith8oz? Reply ThetakeawayI’mgettinghereisthataflatwhiteisanimprovedandbetterthoughtthroughversionofalatte. Reply Dependsonyourpreference.Oldschool,homemade,latteisaverymilkydrinkmadeonastovetop–thinkoftheopeningscenesofLaTerraTrema. Latteasservedincafesseemstobethishomemadestuffcommercialisedand“cheffed-up”intoamorerespectablebeverage.Insomerespectsitfeelscompromisedandalmostunitalian. Theflatwhiteseemstobecommercialfromthegroundup,rootedfirmlyintheespressomachineandsteamedmilk.AllveryMilanoandraffinato. Reply ThetakeawayI’mgettinghereisthataflatwhiteisanimprovedandbetterthoughtthroughversionofalatte. Reply Dependsonyourpreference.Oldschool,homemade,latteisaverymilkydrinkmadeonastovetop–thinkoftheopeningscenesofLaTerraTrema. Latteasservedincafesseemstobethishomemadestuffcommercialisedand“cheffed-up”intoamorerespectablebeverage.Insomerespectsitfeelscompromisedandalmostunitalian. Theflatwhiteseemstobecommercialfromthegroundup,rootedfirmlyintheespressomachineandsteamedmilk.AllveryMilanoandraffinato. Reply ActuallyaflatwhiteinNewZealandhashumblebeginings.Itsinterestinghearingallthecommentssomeofwhichhitthemarkotherswhichareaproductofanevolvingindustryandacorporateindustryscramblingtoemmulatetheingenuityofsmallindependentroastaryandcafenetworks. Inthe70’saFlatWhiteinAotearoawasjustanicepunchyAmericanowithsomemilk.ItevolvedwithlatteartandwasprobablyclosetowhatitisnowbytheendoftheninetiesincertainselectplacesinNewZealand.Sowhatyouarenowgettingworldwidenowwashappening20yearsagoinNewZealandandAustrailaandmuchofitisbeingcopiedfromamuchlowerstandardorpoorerstartingpoint.Greatbeanswithgoodroastprofilesandrunningshotsandstretchingmilktoperfectionallhavetobenailedotherwisenomatterwhattheratio’sofmilk/espressooftentheresultingcoffeeissad. Thatsaidthereareamazingcoffee’stobehadandtherealskillisfindingitandlatchingontoit.InEastlondonthere’ssomuchgoodcoffeeasopposedtowestlondonandusuallyitsKiwi’sandAussiesbehindthewheel.TypicallyIdonotorderfromaplacethatdoesnotchasethegrindorsurfthegrindasisknowndownunder.Muchoftheflavourofextractioniscontrolledbythegrindwhichchangesthroughouttheday.Idontcareiftheyknowalltheirratiosandmathsandevenweightheshots……Iftheydonthaveagoodfeelfortheprofileoftheshotsandcantgetthemilkrightitsallover.Thestretchingofmilkisdifferentfordifferentcoffeesbothinprocessandinmanagingit.OneofmyBarristasusedtoraptothemusicthathewasTHEMICROFOAMCONTROLLER……andreallyitwastrueafterI’dlineupsomedopeshots.Greatthingaboutcoffeeisthatthereisalwayssomethingmoretolearn.Thebadthingisonceyou’vehadgoodcoffeeconsistentlyitshardtodrinkacupofroughjoe. Reply Ididn’trealisehowpretentioustheworldhadbecomeuntilIreadthisarticle. Reply Ididn’trealisehowpretentioustheworldhadbecomeuntilIreadthisarticle. Reply Greatarticle.I’mstillkindaconfusedthoughhaha.LasttimeIorderedaflatwhiteIaskedthebaristawhatitwas.Hesaidthatit’skindoflikeacappuccinobutmorecreamy.Iguesshisright,right;)?Anyway.Itwasagreatflatwhite. Reply Greatarticle.I’mstillkindaconfusedthoughhaha.LasttimeIorderedaflatwhiteIaskedthebaristawhatitwas.Hesaidthatit’skindoflikeacappuccinobutmorecreamy.Iguesshisright,right;)?Anyway.Itwasagreatflatwhite. Reply Verygood,informativearticle.Youexplainthegoodandbadtechniquesofmakingcoffee.However,I’mnotsureyouanswerthequestionof‘whatisthedifferencebetweenalatteandflatwhite’. Forme,onepointthathasbeentouchedonbutnotexplicitlysaidisthatanimportantpartistheratioofespressotomilk.Formeaflatwhitehasamuchlowerratioofmilktoespresso.PersonallyIlikearatioof2:1or3:1foraflatwhiteand5:1upwardsforalatte.Forthisreason,Ithinkitistechnicallypossibletohaveaoneshotflatwhite(serveina3ozcup)ortohaveaflatwhiteina16ozcup(5or6shotsofespressowouldbeabitmuchformethough)solongastheratioiskept. Obviouslyalltheotheraspectsmentionedabovesuchastemperatureandtextureofthemilkgowithoutsaying. Reply Gotoanyreputablecoffeeshopandnooneisspooningfoamonanything,Everythingispouredfreehand,soaflatwhite,cortado,cappuccino,andlatteallendupbeingverysimilar.Onlythesizeisthedeterminingfactor. Reply Thankyou!I’mnotalone!It’ssoundstomelikepeoplearejustnowdiscoveringthewondersofacorrectlymadeespressodrink,mistakinglythinkingit’sanewphenomenonandassumingthatbadcoffeemakinghabitsaretheoldwayofdoingthings.Thisisn’tnewpeople.Thisishowgoodespressodrinksaremade.It’sjustadifferentformfactor. Reply Gotoanyreputablecoffeeshopandnooneisspooningfoamonanything,Everythingispouredfreehand,soaflatwhite,cortado,cappuccino,andlatteallendupbeingverysimilar.Onlythesizeisthedeterminingfactor. Reply Thankyou!I’mnotalone!It’ssoundstomelikepeoplearejustnowdiscoveringthewondersofacorrectlymadeespressodrink,mistakinglythinkingit’sanewphenomenonandassumingthatbadcoffeemakinghabitsaretheoldwayofdoingthings.Thisisn’tnewpeople.Thisishowgoodespressodrinksaremade.It’sjustadifferentformfactor. Reply IworkedmakingcoffeeinAustraliaandNewZealandandthewayiwastoldtomakeaflatwhitewas,thesmallerlikeeveryonehasagreedbutthemilkisn’tstretchedasfarasyouwouldwithalatte. Reply *thesmallersizelikeeveryonehasagreed Reply IworkedmakingcoffeeinAustraliaandNewZealandandthewayiwastoldtomakeaflatwhitewas,thesmallerlikeeveryonehasagreedbutthemilkisn’tstretchedasfarasyouwouldwithalatte. Reply *thesmallersizelikeeveryonehasagreed Reply IrecentlytriedorderingaflatwhiteatahotelcafeinBakersfield,Caandthebaristagavemeanamusedlittlelookbeforesmuglytellingmeit’sjustwhatAustralianscallalatte.IwastooirritatedtoexplaintoherthedifferenceespeciallysinceIhadthefeelingevenifIexplainedittohershe’dstilljustmakemealatteanyways. Reply SamehereinCT,itssofrustratinglyannoying!Iendedupbeingservedagiantovermilkylatte,becausetheysaid“that’sjustawetlattethattheAustraliansputafancynameonanddecidedtochargemoremoneyfor,soheryougo.”UGH! Reply IrecentlytriedorderingaflatwhiteatahotelcafeinBakersfield,Caandthebaristagavemeanamusedlittlelookbeforesmuglytellingmeit’sjustwhatAustralianscallalatte.IwastooirritatedtoexplaintoherthedifferenceespeciallysinceIhadthefeelingevenifIexplainedittohershe’dstilljustmakemealatteanyways. Reply SamehereinCT,itssofrustratinglyannoying!Iendedupbeingservedagiantovermilkylatte,becausetheysaid“that’sjustawetlattethattheAustraliansputafancynameonanddecidedtochargemoremoneyfor,soheryougo.”UGH! Reply IfirstexperiencedtheflatwhitewhenIwaslivinginNewZealandafewyearsback.FranklyIspentallmytimetrying(andfailing)tofindanhonestcappuccino.EverybaristainNewZealandseemsobsessedwiththequalityofthemilk,totheextentthatthecoffeecomesoffasanafterthought.Everyflatwhiteendsuptastingessentiallythesameasthecoffeeisneverallowedtobeseparatefromthemilk.Itwasastepupfromthenear-universalinstantcoffeeeveryonekeepsinajarnexttotheirsugarandtea,butidoubtthecoffeewilleverbegroundbreakingaslongasthecultureismilk-obsessed. Reply IfirstexperiencedtheflatwhitewhenIwaslivinginNewZealandafewyearsback.FranklyIspentallmytimetrying(andfailing)tofindanhonestcappuccino.EverybaristainNewZealandseemsobsessedwiththequalityofthemilk,totheextentthatthecoffeecomesoffasanafterthought.Everyflatwhiteendsuptastingessentiallythesameasthecoffeeisneverallowedtobeseparatefromthemilk.Itwasastepupfromthenear-universalinstantcoffeeeveryonekeepsinajarnexttotheirsugarandtea,butidoubtthecoffeewilleverbegroundbreakingaslongasthecultureismilk-obsessed. Reply It’salljusttooconfusing.Idisagreewiththisarticletotally.Itseemstoimplythataflatwhitehassmoothcreamymilkandacappuccinohas‘stiff’foam!?!Bothdrinkshave,ifwellmade,smoothandsilkymilk.Acappuccinoisjustlightertexturedasit’smoreaerated.Providedthemilkisstretchedbeforeitgetsabove100fandthenspunitwillbeshiny.FormeanyMilkyespressobeverageshouldhavecareandattentiongivenit.Thiswillresultinasmoothdrink.Inevitablyifacappuccinositsaroundthefoamwillstiffen.Butsowillthatofaflatwhiteoralatte-there’sjustlessofitsoitsnotasobvious.Shouldbeamootpointhoweverastobeenjoyedattheirbesttheyshouldbothbeconsumedreasonablyquickly. Idon’tthinkthere’salawanywherethatstatesalattehasmorefroththanaflatwhiteandIdontthinkthatwouldeverconsistentlybethecase-ergoacarefullymadeflatwhiteandacarefullymadelattearethesamealbeittraditionseemstobeoneis6ozandtheother8oz.Flatwhitesarespokenaboutasthoughthere’ssomemysticalsecret.Nope;)asformilktempabsolutelyshouldn’tbetoohotbutI’dsay54cassuggestedwouldbethelowsideofacceptableand68-70ctheabsolutemaxtoretainsweetness.Checkoutprufrocksmenu-coffeewmilk4,6or8ozperfectlyshiny,silkyandsmooth.Tellsyouwhatmultiplewbc’sthinkofthewholedebate;) Reply It’salljusttooconfusing.Idisagreewiththisarticletotally.Itseemstoimplythataflatwhitehassmoothcreamymilkandacappuccinohas‘stiff’foam!?!Bothdrinkshave,ifwellmade,smoothandsilkymilk.Acappuccinoisjustlightertexturedasit’smoreaerated.Providedthemilkisstretchedbeforeitgetsabove100fandthenspunitwillbeshiny.FormeanyMilkyespressobeverageshouldhavecareandattentiongivenit.Thiswillresultinasmoothdrink.Inevitablyifacappuccinositsaroundthefoamwillstiffen.Butsowillthatofaflatwhiteoralatte-there’sjustlessofitsoitsnotasobvious.Shouldbeamootpointhoweverastobeenjoyedattheirbesttheyshouldbothbeconsumedreasonablyquickly. Idon’tthinkthere’salawanywherethatstatesalattehasmorefroththanaflatwhiteandIdontthinkthatwouldeverconsistentlybethecase-ergoacarefullymadeflatwhiteandacarefullymadelattearethesamealbeittraditionseemstobeoneis6ozandtheother8oz.Flatwhitesarespokenaboutasthoughthere’ssomemysticalsecret.Nope;)asformilktempabsolutelyshouldn’tbetoohotbutI’dsay54cassuggestedwouldbethelowsideofacceptableand68-70ctheabsolutemaxtoretainsweetness.Checkoutprufrocksmenu-coffeewmilk4,6or8ozperfectlyshiny,silkyandsmooth.Tellsyouwhatmultiplewbc’sthinkofthewholedebate;) Reply Everyoneseemstobeprettydeepintoflatwhite/lattediscussionthesedays.IhavetoreviewCzechcoffeesceneandaskbaristaswhatknowledgeourcustomersandbatistashaveinthetimewhencoffeecultureisimprovingliveinfrontofyoureyeseveryday. Reply Ikeepgettingservedalattéinatallglasswhichisreallyannoying,itlookslikeI’mdrinkingamilkshake,quicklycoolstothetemperatureofamilkshake,andisverybadlybalancedinthehand.I’mnowaconvertedflatwhiteman. Reply WhatisleftunsaidiswhytheFlatWhiteexistsinthefirstplace.Unliketheclassicespressodrinks–latte,cappuccino,macchiato-theFlatWhiteisarecentinvention. I’venothingagainstit,butforthemostpart,it’saconvenientreplacementfortheothermilkydrinks,easierforabaristatomakeandallowsforthatof-so-important“latteart”tobedisplayed.Forthemostpart,thebigchains-*$,Costa,Nero–canmakeagoodcoffee,buttheyliketomakeittheirway,notyourway.Soyouwilloftengetacappuccinothat’sactuallyalatte(Pretand*$)oracappuccinothat’saFlatWhitesotheycanmakeaprettypictureontop(notreallypossiblewithpropercappuccinofoam). NoonewascryingoutfortheFlatWhite.It’sreallyjustawaytosimplifythe“espressoandmilk”drinkandallowfornicelattearttobeshownoff. Reply WhatisleftunsaidiswhytheFlatWhiteexistsinthefirstplace.Unliketheclassicespressodrinks–latte,cappuccino,macchiato-theFlatWhiteisarecentinvention. I’venothingagainstit,butforthemostpart,it’saconvenientreplacementfortheothermilkydrinks,easierforabaristatomakeandallowsforthatof-so-important“latteart”tobedisplayed.Forthemostpart,thebigchains-*$,Costa,Nero–canmakeagoodcoffee,buttheyliketomakeittheirway,notyourway.Soyouwilloftengetacappuccinothat’sactuallyalatte(Pretand*$)oracappuccinothat’saFlatWhitesotheycanmakeaprettypictureontop(notreallypossiblewithpropercappuccinofoam). NoonewascryingoutfortheFlatWhite.It’sreallyjustawaytosimplifythe“espressoandmilk”drinkandallowfornicelattearttobeshownoff. Reply NextupshouldbetheLongBlackvsAmericanodebate. MostindependentcafesinLondonstillgetthiswrong. Theorderinwhichalongblackismade(waterfirst,espressosecond)isimportant—reversingthestepswilldestroythecremafromtheespressoshotandmakeanAmericano. Reply NextupshouldbetheLongBlackvsAmericanodebate. MostindependentcafesinLondonstillgetthiswrong. Theorderinwhichalongblackismade(waterfirst,espressosecond)isimportant—reversingthestepswilldestroythecremafromtheespressoshotandmakeanAmericano. Reply Youwritethatacappuccinohasstiff,bubblymilkfrothontop.IbelievethatistheAmericanversion,whichhasthesamekindoffrothasaLatteMacchiato.Anoriginalcappuccinoshouldnothaveheatedmilkandseparatestiffmilkfroth,butonlyasemi-fluidfluffymilkfoammixedwiththeespresso.Ifyoudoitthiswayithasagreat,consistenttexture,andaverybrownsurface(hencethename).TheGermanWikipediabacksthistheory,whiletheEnglishdoesnot. Ilikecoffee,butI’mneitherabaristanoranexpert.ResearchingcoffeeonthewebIhavelearnedthefollowingthings: 1)mostcoffee“afficinados”onthewebarejustsmugnarcissistsfullof…usedcoffeeground.Particularlythosewhojuststartedacareerasabarista.Notmeantpersonallyandnotdirectedatthisblog;thisarticleiswrittenpositivelypragmaticandcasual.Ilikethat! 2)Itdoesn’tmatterwhatanyonesaysanyway,becausetheofficialdefinitionsdifferfromcountrytocountry(inGermanyatraditionalcaffèlatte(“Milchkaffee”)hasdripcoffeebecausewehavenoideaofgoodcoffeewhatsoever);andintheendeveneverycoffeeshopdoeswhateveritwants. Iusuallyorderacappuccino,andI’malwayswonderingwhatIwillget.Oftentimesithasatinyalibiportionoffoamonit,whilethecafèlattelookslikewhatIwanted;onceIgotacoffeewithwhipcreamonit–notkidding!BythewayI’veneverseena“FlatWhite”andIwouldn’tevenknowwhatit’scalledinmycountry.Wikipediasaysit’sanAustralianhybrid.Okaythen… Bytheway,yousaythatthecremaiscaramelizedcoffee.Usuallycremaisdefinedastheextractedoilsofthecoffee.WhenIlookupespressoincaloriedatabases,theyallsaythatitcontainsalittleamountoffat,butbasicallynocarbohydratesatall.Therefore,coffeebeanswouldbesimilartococoabeanswhichalsocontainfat,butbasicallynocarbohydrates.Furtheremore,caramelisonlycreatedattemperaturesof135°Candup,whichseemsawfullyhighforcoffee.Ibelievecoffeeispreparedataround80°Corsomethinglikethat?SoIthinkthecremaiscreatedbypressingtheoiloutofthecoffeegrindathighpressure(vegetableoilsarecreatedsimilarlyafaik).Youseemtoknowalotaboutthisstuff,soI’mwonderingwhetherthere’sinfactmoretocremathanjusttastyoils! Reply So…I’mgoingtoignoreyourusageoftheword“bubbles”inallofthis.Thereshouldn’tbebubblesanywhereinyourfoam.Soundstomeyourflatwhiteisatraditionalcappuccino,approx8ouncestotal,preferablywithtwoshotsofespresso,pouredbeforethefoamsetsupbutnotatitswettest. Reply Itriedtheflatwhitecoffeeforthefirsttime…butbeforeIorderit,Iaskedthebaristawhat’sonitandshesaidawholemilknoanysweetener..kindalikeacoffeelattetaste…hmmm…itwasgoodbutIenduprushinghomestraighttothewashroomcozmystomachdidn’tapproveit!Mustbethemilk! Reply Itriedtheflatwhitecoffeeforthefirsttime…butbeforeIorderit,Iaskedthebaristawhat’sonitandshesaidawholemilknoanysweetener..kindalikeacoffeelattetaste…hmmm…itwasgoodbutIenduprushinghomestraighttothewashroomcozmystomachdidn’tapproveit!Mustbethemilk! Reply Thedistinctionsaresosmallbetweenthelatteandflatwhite,Idon’tthinkthearticlemadeitanyclearerforme. Reply Wonderfulpost…IwaslookinguphowtomakeaFlatWhiteathome….IwasjustintroducedtotheFlatWhitewhilevacationinginAUandNZinJanuary2015.Sobeautiful.NowthatIambackinthestatesandwishingtomakethisathomebecausemyhusbandisnowsodisappointedinhismorning“coffee”andIamlongingformyfoldedfoaminthoselovelycups!Whattodo?Goingtoacoffeeshopisnotanoptionwherewelive.Suggestiononhomemachines? Reply IorderedmyAscasoDreamonlineandloveit.Igotitonebayfromasellerwhobarelyuseditforaverygoodprice. Reply Wonderfulpost…IwaslookinguphowtomakeaFlatWhiteathome….IwasjustintroducedtotheFlatWhitewhilevacationinginAUandNZinJanuary2015.Sobeautiful.NowthatIambackinthestatesandwishingtomakethisathomebecausemyhusbandisnowsodisappointedinhismorning“coffee”andIamlongingformyfoldedfoaminthoselovelycups!Whattodo?Goingtoacoffeeshopisnotanoptionwherewelive.Suggestiononhomemachines? Reply IorderedmyAscasoDreamonlineandloveit.Igotitonebayfromasellerwhobarelyuseditforaverygoodprice. Reply ThemboElly Thisanswerreadstobethebestonmysideofunderstanding.AmabaristainUgandabutalwaysflatwouldmeannotstrongsothisflatwhitehasmoremilktoregulateespressotoughness. Reply I’vehadextensiveexperienceasabaristainboththeUKandCanadaandI’vealwaysfoundtheflatwhitetobeasocialmisnomer. Ontheonehad,thereareagreatmanybaristasoutsideofAustralasiathatdon’tknowhowtomakeitproperlybut,consideringinanyonecityyouwillfindvariationinthepreparationandpresentationofmostespressodrinks,thefacttherearedifferencesintheflatwhitestylebetweencountriesiseasytounderstand. I’dsaythemainproblemistwo-fold.Firstly,customersneverknowwhattheywant–atleastinsomuchashowtheiruseofatermcorrespondstotheculturalortechnicaldefinitionofadrink.Theflatwhiteisoftenorderedlarge,orwithalmondmilk.It’ssaidtobetoostrongwhenit’sadoubleinan8ozbutsomehowperfectwhenmadeina6oz.It’sinsisteduponthatitmustbearistrettoshot.Thereareanynumberofbastardisationsofthesamedrinkwhichcontributetoitbeingindecipherableandutterlyannoyingtoengagewithasabarista. Myownfeeling,andmysecondandfinalissue,isthatthinkingofalatteasjusta“milkycoffee”isarelativelylameandreductionistviewpoint.Thatbeautifulvelvetymicro-foamthatisthestapleoftheflatwhiteisalsothemakingsofawonderfullatte.Justcombiningdecentmilkandespressoforalatteandcallingitacceptableisn’treallyokay.Thatmicro-foamshouldbethepredominantexperienceforthelatterdrinkertoo.Couplethatwiththedesireatnicerplacestoprovideartinthecremaand–ifyou’reanygood–you’reessentiallytalkingaboutthesamecompositionasaflatwhite,albeitonethatvariesinsize. Soyeah.Customersarewrongalot,baristasshouldbebetter,andbloggerscanbealittletooself-assured. Reply Herehere! Flatwhitehasbeenadoptedbythosewhowanttofeel‘intheknow’,butlattesandcappsshouldalsobegiventhesametreatmentintermsofattentiontomilkandEspressoprep. Reply I’vehadextensiveexperienceasabaristainboththeUKandCanadaandI’vealwaysfoundtheflatwhitetobeasocialmisnomer. Ontheonehad,thereareagreatmanybaristasoutsideofAustralasiathatdon’tknowhowtomakeitproperlybut,consideringinanyonecityyouwillfindvariationinthepreparationandpresentationofmostespressodrinks,thefacttherearedifferencesintheflatwhitestylebetweencountriesiseasytounderstand. I’dsaythemainproblemistwo-fold.Firstly,customersneverknowwhattheywant–atleastinsomuchashowtheiruseofatermcorrespondstotheculturalortechnicaldefinitionofadrink.Theflatwhiteisoftenorderedlarge,orwithalmondmilk.It’ssaidtobetoostrongwhenit’sadoubleinan8ozbutsomehowperfectwhenmadeina6oz.It’sinsisteduponthatitmustbearistrettoshot.Thereareanynumberofbastardisationsofthesamedrinkwhichcontributetoitbeingindecipherableandutterlyannoyingtoengagewithasabarista. Myownfeeling,andmysecondandfinalissue,isthatthinkingofalatteasjusta“milkycoffee”isarelativelylameandreductionistviewpoint.Thatbeautifulvelvetymicro-foamthatisthestapleoftheflatwhiteisalsothemakingsofawonderfullatte.Justcombiningdecentmilkandespressoforalatteandcallingitacceptableisn’treallyokay.Thatmicro-foamshouldbethepredominantexperienceforthelatterdrinkertoo.Couplethatwiththedesireatnicerplacestoprovideartinthecremaand–ifyou’reanygood–you’reessentiallytalkingaboutthesamecompositionasaflatwhite,albeitonethatvariesinsize. Soyeah.Customersarewrongalot,baristasshouldbebetter,andbloggerscanbealittletooself-assured. Reply Herehere! Flatwhitehasbeenadoptedbythosewhowanttofeel‘intheknow’,butlattesandcappsshouldalsobegiventhesametreatmentintermsofattentiontomilkandEspressoprep. Reply Youpeopleneedtogetalife!Thisbusinessoftryingtoturncoffeemakingintoanadvancedscienceorartform–absolutegarbage Reply YoutookthetroubletopostonablogcalledCoffeeHunter,dissingalmosteveryoneelsewhohasposted.Whatwereyouexpecting? Haveyouactuallytriedanyofthesedrinks?Andhaveyoutriedmakingthem? Thereisadifference,butifyouhavenopalateorappreciationofthesethingsthenyouprobablyoughttogetbacktoyourfishfingersandchipsandliquiddirt–orNescaféasIbelieveitiscalled… Reply Youpeopleneedtogetalife!Thisbusinessoftryingtoturncoffeemakingintoanadvancedscienceorartform–absolutegarbage Reply YoutookthetroubletopostonablogcalledCoffeeHunter,dissingalmosteveryoneelsewhohasposted.Whatwereyouexpecting? Haveyouactuallytriedanyofthesedrinks?Andhaveyoutriedmakingthem? Thereisadifference,butifyouhavenopalateorappreciationofthesethingsthenyouprobablyoughttogetbacktoyourfishfingersandchipsandliquiddirt–orNescaféasIbelieveitiscalled… Reply Beenabaristaforsevenyears.Theflatwhitecrazeisafunnydevelopment.Apartfromsoundingmorelikeasharkthanacupofcoffeeitis,howeveryouwannalookatit,verysimilartoasmalllatteoracompetitioncappuccino.Ifyou’reseriousaboutcoffeeyoumakeadistinctionbetweenmilkbaseddrinksusingespressoanddrinks,usuallyconsumedblack,producedusingvariousbrewmethods.That’sitreally,itsjustsemanticsandmarketing.Youshouldworryaboutwhat’sinthehopper. Reply Beenabaristaforsevenyears.Theflatwhitecrazeisafunnydevelopment.Apartfromsoundingmorelikeasharkthanacupofcoffeeitis,howeveryouwannalookatit,verysimilartoasmalllatteoracompetitioncappuccino.Ifyou’reseriousaboutcoffeeyoumakeadistinctionbetweenmilkbaseddrinksusingespressoanddrinks,usuallyconsumedblack,producedusingvariousbrewmethods.That’sitreally,itsjustsemanticsandmarketing.Youshouldworryaboutwhat’sinthehopper. Reply That’sexactlywhatiwaslookingfor! AlwaysquestionaboutthedifferencebetweenF/Wandlatte. Thankfortheinformation. Ireaallyneedaflatwhiteatthemoment,butit’skindofnewheretoo. SoIhaven’thadF/WsinceFeb. Reply That’sexactlywhatiwaslookingfor! AlwaysquestionaboutthedifferencebetweenF/Wandlatte. Thankfortheinformation. Ireaallyneedaflatwhiteatthemoment,butit’skindofnewheretoo. SoIhaven’thadF/WsinceFeb. Reply Iamneitherabaristanoracoffeeconnoisseur.HoweverIdolikemycoffee.Ihaven’thadadecentcupofflatwhitesinceIleftAustralia.Thisevening,Ihadagiantcupofmilktoppedwithathicklayerofcreamdisguisedasaflatwhite.ThiswasataStarbucksinSingapore.Iamsofrustratedthatitspromptedmetowritethis.Thanksfortheinformation Reply Iamneitherabaristanoracoffeeconnoisseur.HoweverIdolikemycoffee.Ihaven’thadadecentcupofflatwhitesinceIleftAustralia.Thisevening,Ihadagiantcupofmilktoppedwithathicklayerofcreamdisguisedasaflatwhite.ThiswasataStarbucksinSingapore.Iamsofrustratedthatitspromptedmetowritethis.Thanksfortheinformation Reply IlovecoffeeandIhavetriedallshopsaroundmyareabutthereisonebaristaironicallyworkingforaMcDonaldscaféinmyareawhoisamazing.ShemakesthebestCappuccinoandMochaccinoIhaveevertried.Ifyoujustwatchherdoingthethingyouknowsheispassionateaboutitandsheknowswhatsheisdoing.ItisjustamatteroftimeandsomelocalcoffeeshopyouhireherIamsure. Reply IlovecoffeeandIhavetriedallshopsaroundmyareabutthereisonebaristaironicallyworkingforaMcDonaldscaféinmyareawhoisamazing.ShemakesthebestCappuccinoandMochaccinoIhaveevertried.Ifyoujustwatchherdoingthethingyouknowsheispassionateaboutitandsheknowswhatsheisdoing.ItisjustamatteroftimeandsomelocalcoffeeshopyouhireherIamsure. Reply IorderedaflatwhiteonawhimthefirsttimeIorderedcoffeeonmytriptoLondon.ThatendedupbeingtheonlycoffeedrinkIhadtheentiretimeIwastherebecauseitwassogood.NowIambackinthestatesandnooneknowswhatthehellaflatwhiteis.IjustneedtofindabaristathathasenoughtimetoreadthisonmyphoneafterIorderaflatwhite. Reply WhenwevisitedtheUS,everyonewalksaroundwiththisgianttake-awaycupsofwaterycoffee.Needlesstosay,Iabstained.Wedidn’tfindgoodcoffeeanywhereintheareaswevisitedatthattime. Reply IorderedaflatwhiteonawhimthefirsttimeIorderedcoffeeonmytriptoLondon.ThatendedupbeingtheonlycoffeedrinkIhadtheentiretimeIwastherebecauseitwassogood.NowIambackinthestatesandnooneknowswhatthehellaflatwhiteis.IjustneedtofindabaristathathasenoughtimetoreadthisonmyphoneafterIorderaflatwhite. Reply WhenwevisitedtheUS,everyonewalksaroundwiththisgianttake-awaycupsofwaterycoffee.Needlesstosay,Iabstained.Wedidn’tfindgoodcoffeeanywhereintheareaswevisitedatthattime. Reply Thankyousomuchforabeautifullywrittenandeasytounderstandexplanation!JustgotbackfromIrelandandLondonwhereespressowasoftentimestheonlycoffeeavailableandIorderedaflatwhiteinsteadofalatte,justtoseewhatitwas.AndIlikeditbetter!Itseemedsmoother–butIcouldn’tfigureoutwhy.AndnowIknow. Thankyousomuch! Reply Thankyousomuchforabeautifullywrittenandeasytounderstandexplanation!JustgotbackfromIrelandandLondonwhereespressowasoftentimestheonlycoffeeavailableandIorderedaflatwhiteinsteadofalatte,justtoseewhatitwas.AndIlikeditbetter!Itseemedsmoother–butIcouldn’tfigureoutwhy.AndnowIknow. Thankyousomuch! Reply couldsomebodypleasetellmewhymylattecoffeeskeepcurdling.andpleasetellmethecorrectseriesofpouringintoalargelatteglass. SHOULDITBE1:poursteamedmilkinfirst 2:addflavouredsyrup(ifrequired) 3:addexpressocoffee PleaseHELP Reply couldsomebodypleasetellmewhymylattecoffeeskeepcurdling.andpleasetellmethecorrectseriesofpouringintoalargelatteglass. SHOULDITBE1:poursteamedmilkinfirst 2:addflavouredsyrup(ifrequired) 3:addexpressocoffee PleaseHELP Reply Spooningmilk?Oh,fortheloveofgod.–Juststretch,&texturethemilkforadifferentamountoftimedependingonwhetheryouwantaCappu,LatorFla. Freepoureverything. Ifinditfarmoreimportanttoplungethemilkunderthecremaswiftlyyetgentlysoasnottodisturbthecremaasyoublendthemilkthroughout,beforefinishingwithyourdesiredtouch,palm,heart,tulip,etc. Reply Spooningmilk?Oh,fortheloveofgod.–Juststretch,&texturethemilkforadifferentamountoftimedependingonwhetheryouwantaCappu,LatorFla. Freepoureverything. Ifinditfarmoreimportanttoplungethemilkunderthecremaswiftlyyetgentlysoasnottodisturbthecremaasyoublendthemilkthroughout,beforefinishingwithyourdesiredtouch,palm,heart,tulip,etc. Reply Anglo-saxonstalkingaboutcoffeeand“latteart”…yeah! I’mamazedbyyournaiveignoranceaboutthistopicandsurprised Reply Anglo-saxonstalkingaboutcoffeeand“latteart”…yeah! I’mamazedbyyournaiveignoranceaboutthistopicandsurprised Reply inallthesecomments,theartformandloveofcoffeeisacommonthread.Iloveit!!HereinSouthAfricaitisfinallycatchingon!! Reply inallthesecomments,theartformandloveofcoffeeisacommonthread.Iloveit!!HereinSouthAfricaitisfinallycatchingon!! Reply SinceIfirsthadadecentflatwhiteinCosta,ithasbeenmycoffeeofchoiceeversince.Theydoaprettygoodjobinmyexperience–notasgoodasgreatindependentcoffeeshops,butbetterthanmost,andthebestoftheUKchainsIMO. IboughtaGaggiaNewBabybutneededtocustomiseitwithaRanciliosteamwand,andaconicalburrgrinderjusttomaketheseathomeproperly.Ittookmeweeksoftrialanderrortogetitright.Mycoffeeisn’tgoingtowinawards,butit’salotbetterthanmostchains. Forme,it’stheratiobetweenthemilkandcoffee(mediumsizedcup,doubleshot),andvelvetytextureofthemicrofoamthatmakethissodelicious.Ialwaysusefreshly-roastedcoffeeorderedovertheinternet.AflatWhitemadewithfreshlygroundcoffeeroastedonlythedaybeforeismydailytreat. Reply I’mAustralian.ifoundthisinterestingbecauseIneverreallyunderstoodwhatalattewas.IusuallyorderaflatwhiteandallIwantismilkinmycoffeethanksandnowhitemustachetodabawayafterwards. Ithinkwemakegreatcoffeeherewhateveryourpreference. Reply I’mAustralian.ifoundthisinterestingbecauseIneverreallyunderstoodwhatalattewas.IusuallyorderaflatwhiteandallIwantismilkinmycoffeethanksandnowhitemustachetodabawayafterwards. Ithinkwemakegreatcoffeeherewhateveryourpreference. Reply thebaristathinks:IwillmakeyourcoffeeandIdon’tcareifit’sCapplatteorflatwhite!!!!IlgonnapouritwithSwantoday!!!! Reply thebaristathinks:IwillmakeyourcoffeeandIdon’tcareifit’sCapplatteorflatwhite!!!!IlgonnapouritwithSwantoday!!!! Reply Allveryconfusing!Somanydifferentopinions. Iorderadoubleespressoandashotofsteamedwholemilkinasmallcup.Thecupisprobably6or7ounces. Isthisaflatwhite? Reply Allveryconfusing!Somanydifferentopinions. Iorderadoubleespressoandashotofsteamedwholemilkinasmallcup.Thecupisprobably6or7ounces. Isthisaflatwhite? Reply Veryinterestingreadingcommentsonflatwhitev’slatte’Iam70nextyear,Iwasbroughtupintheukwithamotherthatlovedacupofcoffeemadewithmilkandenjoyedgoingtoacoffeeshopforhertreat,allsheaskedforwasawhitecoffeeandasIgrewupstartedtoenjoysame,wenevereverhadaproblemgettingadecentcupormugmadewithmilkforthatcreamytouch,especiallyitaliancoffeeshopstheywerethebest,cametoaustraliaearly70’salwayslovedgoingtocoffeeshopsformycreamyflatwhitecoffeeneveranybitternessorburnttasteortoostrong,anditneverhadfroth,ifyouwantedfrothyouorderedcappucino,overthelastfewyearssincebaristasInowhavestrugglesgettingadecentcupofcoffee,everycoffeethesedayshasfroth,Ihateit.makesmefeelsick,Itisalsotoostrongandsometimesbitterinmanyplaces,sonowhavetoaskforhalfstrengthsoofcoursesometimesdependingonthebrandtheyareusingcanbeasweakasdishwaterIhavetriedflatwhitesandlattestheyarethesametome,dependingwhosemakingit.GoodandImeangoodbaristasmakelovelyflatwhiteswithnofroth,whenIstarteddrinkinglattestheirwasnofroth,Ilikeamugsizehubbylikesacup,Ihatelattesforthefacttheycomeinglasseswithnohandles,itstoohottohold.Weliterallybegfornofrothcantheymakeawhitecoffeewithoutfrothsuretheysayandwhatdoyouget–froth!justtodayalthoughweaskedforcoffeewithnofrothorwewouldspoonitinthesaucerguesswhattheiris1/2″offrothsowesentitbackguesswhatwegetanothercupwithfrothsowhatdowedospoonitoutintothesaucerthenguesswhat,youhavelost1/2yourcoffee.Wetoldthemwewouldn’tbeback,Ihavetravelledtheworld,neverhadabadcoffeeinAmerica,notsurewhatitsliketherenow,butIhatestarbucks,toostrongandbitter.IamcomingtothestagewhereIamconsideringjusthavingmyflatwhitecoffeeathomeandIamnowdrinkingmorewaterwhenIamout. Reply Acappuccinowithbigbubblesisjustnotacceptable–Notsurewhereyoucomefrombutthatwouldbeindicativeofa“person”makingacappuccino,notaworthyBarista! Reply I’manexperiencedNZbaristaandthere’sageneralcorrectwaytomakeaflatwhite,butthere’snorealrulebookonit.Generallyaflatwhiteshouldhavearound3mmorlessofthemicrofoam–maybenotnecessarilyenoughtodofancylatteart,butyoushouldbeabletostillpresentitnicelywithaheart!Idon’tknowwhereallthisstuffabout‘temperature’andusingaristrettoshotforaflatwhitehascomefromasIhavenevermetanotherbaristawhohasmadeaflatwhiteintheseways.Thatjustseemslikesomethingthat’sbeenpasseddownthelinefrombaristatobarista.Itmakessensethenthatbecauseofthis,everycafeandeverybaristawillhaveauniquewayofdoingaflatwhite. Ifit’sfoamyouspecificallydon’tlike,pleasedoallofusbaristasafavourandsaynofoamatall!Withtheprocessthemilkgoesthroughwhenheating,youcan’theatwithoutputtingairinotherwiseitscreechesandmakesthemostungodlysoundyou’veeverheard.Weneedtoletthemilksitforaminutetoletthelayerssettlesowecanholdthemilkbacktogiveyouthat0mmoffroththatyouhaverequested😉 Flatwhitesabsolutelycanbemadetoalarge.WhileIunderstandthatflatwhitesaregenerallymeanttobeshorterandstronger,ifacustomerrequestsalarge,itismostdefinitelypossibletoscaleitupwithoutbeinganass.Ithinkthiswhere‘howtomakeaflatwhite’and‘snobbishness’maygetmixedup. Anyway–sohowtomakeaflatwhite?Doubleespresso,preferablyasmallcup,freshlysteamedwholemilkasalways(don’ttextureittoomuch–FLATwhitebecauseitisrelativelyflatmilkcomparedtoyourmilkforalatteorcappuccino),pouraslittlefrothaspossible.Placeonaplatewithateaspoon.Bam,done.There’snorocketsciencebehindit–perhapsafewtoomanybaristasaretakingtheflatwhiteaweebitseriously. Reply I’manexperiencedNZbaristaandthere’sageneralcorrectwaytomakeaflatwhite,butthere’snorealrulebookonit.Generallyaflatwhiteshouldhavearound3mmorlessofthemicrofoam–maybenotnecessarilyenoughtodofancylatteart,butyoushouldbeabletostillpresentitnicelywithaheart!Idon’tknowwhereallthisstuffabout‘temperature’andusingaristrettoshotforaflatwhitehascomefromasIhavenevermetanotherbaristawhohasmadeaflatwhiteintheseways.Thatjustseemslikesomethingthat’sbeenpasseddownthelinefrombaristatobarista.Itmakessensethenthatbecauseofthis,everycafeandeverybaristawillhaveauniquewayofdoingaflatwhite. Ifit’sfoamyouspecificallydon’tlike,pleasedoallofusbaristasafavourandsaynofoamatall!Withtheprocessthemilkgoesthroughwhenheating,youcan’theatwithoutputtingairinotherwiseitscreechesandmakesthemostungodlysoundyou’veeverheard.Weneedtoletthemilksitforaminutetoletthelayerssettlesowecanholdthemilkbacktogiveyouthat0mmoffroththatyouhaverequested😉 Flatwhitesabsolutelycanbemadetoalarge.WhileIunderstandthatflatwhitesaregenerallymeanttobeshorterandstronger,ifacustomerrequestsalarge,itismostdefinitelypossibletoscaleitupwithoutbeinganass.Ithinkthiswhere‘howtomakeaflatwhite’and‘snobbishness’maygetmixedup. Anyway–sohowtomakeaflatwhite?Doubleespresso,preferablyasmallcup,freshlysteamedwholemilkasalways(don’ttextureittoomuch–FLATwhitebecauseitisrelativelyflatmilkcomparedtoyourmilkforalatteorcappuccino),pouraslittlefrothaspossible.Placeonaplatewithateaspoon.Bam,done.There’snorocketsciencebehindit–perhapsafewtoomanybaristasaretakingtheflatwhiteaweebitseriously. Reply Iamacoffeeshopowner.Weserveorganicespressoandareproudofourmicro-foam. BeforeIwrotemyvocabularytestforbaristas,Istudiedseveraldifferentpublishedespressotermsandvocabularyarticles. YourarticleheremakesmerealizethatIneedto‘declare’whataflatwhiteisatLibby’sLattes. *sigh* FlatWhiteisn’tevenonmyvocabularylist!(ristrettoisinthere,andourmicro-foamwitha‘freepour’isexcellent) NowthatStarbucksisusingtheterm“FlatWhite”alot,wewillneedtodecidetomakeitliketheydo,ornot…….becausepeoplewillbeaskingforit. Reply Iamacoffeeshopowner.Weserveorganicespressoandareproudofourmicro-foam. BeforeIwrotemyvocabularytestforbaristas,Istudiedseveraldifferentpublishedespressotermsandvocabularyarticles. YourarticleheremakesmerealizethatIneedto‘declare’whataflatwhiteisatLibby’sLattes. *sigh* FlatWhiteisn’tevenonmyvocabularylist!(ristrettoisinthere,andourmicro-foamwitha‘freepour’isexcellent) NowthatStarbucksisusingtheterm“FlatWhite”alot,wewillneedtodecidetomakeitliketheydo,ornot…….becausepeoplewillbeaskingforit. Reply HavingworkedasabaristainAustralia,for20years,wemakecoffeetothelikesanddemandsofthecustomer.Ifacustomerwantsafrothyflatwhitewhichisactuallyalatteweservethemaflatwhitewithfrothwithasmuchoraslittlecoffeetotheirindividualtasteinuptofourdifferentsizedcupsandwiththeoptiontofullyfillthecuporonlyhalffull.Oriftheyaskforalattewithnofroth,weservethemaflatwhite. Youwon’tfindanylatteartonmyflatwhites.Whatyoushouldseeisthecrema,thecolourofthesameintensityasyouwouldseeontheshotofespressoontopaverythinlayerofmicro-foaminanysizecupfrom8ozto20oz.Mylatteartisreservedforlatteswhichismadeofblendingthecoffeewithtexturizedfrothymilkresultinginadefinedlayerofmicro-foamabout1cmindepth. Theskillofagoodbaristaistointerpretwhatthecustomerisaskingforintheircoffeeandtoproduceacoffeebeveragetotheindividualpreferencesofthecustomerwhomayormaynotbeaneducatedcoffeedrinker.Itdoesn’tmatterwhattheycallitaslongasittastesgood.AllIwanttoseeisemptycups.IfIcollectcupsthatstillcontainliquid,IfeelIhavenotdonegoodenough. Reply HavingworkedasabaristainAustralia,for20years,wemakecoffeetothelikesanddemandsofthecustomer.Ifacustomerwantsafrothyflatwhitewhichisactuallyalatteweservethemaflatwhitewithfrothwithasmuchoraslittlecoffeetotheirindividualtasteinuptofourdifferentsizedcupsandwiththeoptiontofullyfillthecuporonlyhalffull.Oriftheyaskforalattewithnofroth,weservethemaflatwhite. Youwon’tfindanylatteartonmyflatwhites.Whatyoushouldseeisthecrema,thecolourofthesameintensityasyouwouldseeontheshotofespressoontopaverythinlayerofmicro-foaminanysizecupfrom8ozto20oz.Mylatteartisreservedforlatteswhichismadeofblendingthecoffeewithtexturizedfrothymilkresultinginadefinedlayerofmicro-foamabout1cmindepth. Theskillofagoodbaristaistointerpretwhatthecustomerisaskingforintheircoffeeandtoproduceacoffeebeveragetotheindividualpreferencesofthecustomerwhomayormaynotbeaneducatedcoffeedrinker.Itdoesn’tmatterwhattheycallitaslongasittastesgood.AllIwanttoseeisemptycups.IfIcollectcupsthatstillcontainliquid,IfeelIhavenotdonegoodenough. Reply OkI’mthinkinglatteisalotofmilkincoffee,flatwhiteiswetcappuccino?Cappuccinoisevenlessmilkandmorefoam. Reply OkI’mthinkinglatteisalotofmilkincoffee,flatwhiteiswetcappuccino?Cappuccinoisevenlessmilkandmorefoam. Reply Inovertwentyyears,IhaveownedfourcoffeeshopsinAustraliaandpeopleinAmericaandtheU.K.areconfusedastowhataflatwhiteisbecausetheyaregettinglattes.Aflatwhiteissimplyflat,nofrothorverylittle.Alattehasfroth.Acappuccinohasmorefroth.Italldependsonhowmuchairisaddedtothemilkduringsteaming.Ifithasmicrofoamorfrothitisnotaflatwhite. Asabarista,itismyjobtointerpretthecustomersrequestandproducethecoffeetotheirexpectations.Tellmehowyoulikeyourcoffee,andIwillmakehowyoulikeit,evena20oz.flatwhitewithasingleshotofespresso.Iwon’taskyouwhyyouliketodrinkhotmilkwithahintofcoffee.IwouldhavesomanyangrycustomersifItoldthemaflatwhitecomesinonlyonesizewithtwoshots.Iamoperatingabusiness,notabaristacompetition. Reply IhavebeenaBaristafor17yearsnow.WhensomeonecomesinandordersaflatwhiteIautomaticallyhatethem.NotbecauseIcan’tmakeit,(Igetit,thereisadifferenceetc)butbecauseIknowtheyaretryingtotestme.Theyholduptheline,stretchtheirnecksoverthecounter,andloomovermetowatchwhatIamdoing.Thesearethetypesofpeoplethatwouldn’tknoweitherway.Ihaveneveroncegottenthesameversionofthe“recipe”foraflatwhitefromacustomer.WhenitbecamepopularIofcourseresearchedandlearneditrightaway.Imademyfirstoneforacustomerbeautifully,(aftertestingthemonmyself)ithadperfectmicrofoam,perfectpour,perfectratio,andperfectpresentation.Theycomplaineditwasn’tthesameastheonetheygotfromStarbucks…..Ain’tnobodygottimeforthatshit…. Reply …thenpeopleaddsugarandstir! Reply …thenpeopleaddsugarandstir! Reply Aflatwhiteshouldbeexactlythat.Themilkshouldbeflat,notexture.Nomicrofoam.Nothing.Justwarmedmilk,basically.Retainthecremaforpresentationandyoubasicallyhavethe“whitecoffee”youhaveatyourfriendshouseexceptithascremaandthemilkisn’tpouredcold.Idon’tknowhowthisisevenadebate.Thenametellsyouexactlyhowitshouldbe.Microfoamandvelvety,silkymilkisforalatteandthatplusagooddollopofthickfoamequatestoacappucino.Fairlystandardstuff. Reply Aflatwhiteshouldbeexactlythat.Themilkshouldbeflat,notexture.Nomicrofoam.Nothing.Justwarmedmilk,basically.Retainthecremaforpresentationandyoubasicallyhavethe“whitecoffee”youhaveatyourfriendshouseexceptithascremaandthemilkisn’tpouredcold.Idon’tknowhowthisisevenadebate.Thenametellsyouexactlyhowitshouldbe.Microfoamandvelvety,silkymilkisforalatteandthatplusagooddollopofthickfoamequatestoacappucino.Fairlystandardstuff. Reply Whilethearticlewashelpfulasabaristatryingtoexpandmyknowledge,Ifeltalittleattacked… Itdoesn’tsoundliketheauthoris/wasabaristasoI’dliketoseethemtrytofrothmilkcorrectly.Justanotherstuckupcustomer(readcoffeesnob)whoknowswhattheywantbutwon’taskforitinawaywecanunderstand.Imaynothaveknownwhataflatwhitewas,butifithadbeenexplainedtomeIcouldhavemadeitPERFECTLY. Sodon’tjudgeyourbaristaiftheydon’tknowwhatitis.Taketheopportunitytoteachthem,anddon’tbecondescendingaboutitlikethearticle.Don’ttrytotellthemhowtosteammilkifyou’veneverdoneitwithalineofcustomersoutthedoor.Benice. Reply Whilethearticlewashelpfulasabaristatryingtoexpandmyknowledge,Ifeltalittleattacked… Itdoesn’tsoundliketheauthoris/wasabaristasoI’dliketoseethemtrytofrothmilkcorrectly.Justanotherstuckupcustomer(readcoffeesnob)whoknowswhattheywantbutwon’taskforitinawaywecanunderstand.Imaynothaveknownwhataflatwhitewas,butifithadbeenexplainedtomeIcouldhavemadeitPERFECTLY. Sodon’tjudgeyourbaristaiftheydon’tknowwhatitis.Taketheopportunitytoteachthem,anddon’tbecondescendingaboutitlikethearticle.Don’ttrytotellthemhowtosteammilkifyou’veneverdoneitwithalineofcustomersoutthedoor.Benice. Reply OriginallyfromIreland,I’velivedinFranceforalmost10yearsnowandhaveprettymuchgivenupdrinkingwhitecoffeeoutsideofmyownhome.Thecoffeeindustryhasn’treallyevolvedhere(barafewhipsterjointsinParis)…youeitherdrinkespresso(uncafé),alongblackcoffee(allongé)oracafécrème(whitecoffee)–endofdiscussion!LivinginIreland10yearsagowasscarcelybetterasmostpeoplethoughtalattewoulddothejob(intheimmortalwordsofWayneCampbell,“Areyoumental??)Foryears,everytimeweorderedcoffeeasafamily,wewouldtestthewaiter’spatiencebyordering“adoubleespressoinalargecupwithhotmilkontheside”…invariablytheywouldbringatinyjugofhotmilksobythetimeyougotholdofthewaitertorequestextramilk(andbythetimethatmilkactuallyarrived),yourcoffeehadgonecold&youwereleftcursingtheStarbucks/Friends’cultureofdrinkingoutmassivecups…becauselet’sfaceit,that’swhenorderingawhitecoffeenolongerbecamepossible!Anyway,youcanimaginemyreliefwhenmysisterinformedmethat“onmyholidays”inIreland,Icannowjustordera“flatwhite”andheypresto,it’stheperfectamountofcoffeewiththeperfectamountofmilkinjustTWOWORDS!!Nowallthat’sleftformetodoisgetmybaristacert&openmyowncaféhereinMarseille!Oh,andgreatarticlebytheway🙂 Reply OriginallyfromIreland,I’velivedinFranceforalmost10yearsnowandhaveprettymuchgivenupdrinkingwhitecoffeeoutsideofmyownhome.Thecoffeeindustryhasn’treallyevolvedhere(barafewhipsterjointsinParis)…youeitherdrinkespresso(uncafé),alongblackcoffee(allongé)oracafécrème(whitecoffee)–endofdiscussion!LivinginIreland10yearsagowasscarcelybetterasmostpeoplethoughtalattewoulddothejob(intheimmortalwordsofWayneCampbell,“Areyoumental??)Foryears,everytimeweorderedcoffeeasafamily,wewouldtestthewaiter’spatiencebyordering“adoubleespressoinalargecupwithhotmilkontheside”…invariablytheywouldbringatinyjugofhotmilksobythetimeyougotholdofthewaitertorequestextramilk(andbythetimethatmilkactuallyarrived),yourcoffeehadgonecold&youwereleftcursingtheStarbucks/Friends’cultureofdrinkingoutmassivecups…becauselet’sfaceit,that’swhenorderingawhitecoffeenolongerbecamepossible!Anyway,youcanimaginemyreliefwhenmysisterinformedmethat“onmyholidays”inIreland,Icannowjustordera“flatwhite”andheypresto,it’stheperfectamountofcoffeewiththeperfectamountofmilkinjustTWOWORDS!!Nowallthat’sleftformetodoisgetmybaristacert&openmyowncaféhereinMarseille!Oh,andgreatarticlebytheway🙂 Reply Whatabunchofnonsense!ThisisthesadheritageoftheStarbuckinventingvariationsonthingsthatalreadyexist.Lackingaprevioushistoryandtradition,theyhaveinventedandbrandedthe“warmwater”likenobodyknewaboutit..Andpeoplebeinganal..BeingitalianIamsofedupofthis.Likecallingsandwiches,panini(withoutunderstandingthemeaning,paninisisthepinnacleaspaniniisalreadyplural)andalongsequelofothernosensicalstuff!Caffeelattewegiveittokidstolearntodrinkcoffeeoradultwhentheyfeelundertheweather..Cappuccinoisamorningthingthatyouwanttocallitin15differentwaysbecauseyoupourthefoamedmilkfromleftorright…Ifthismakesmoneythengoahead Reply Iforgottosaythatmanyofthesesupercoffeefanaticsthendrinkthese“supercoffees”inapapercupandtheonlythingyousmelliswarmpaper!Greatstuffforonly3.5pounds! Reply Whatabunchofnonsense!ThisisthesadheritageoftheStarbuckinventingvariationsonthingsthatalreadyexist.Lackingaprevioushistoryandtradition,theyhaveinventedandbrandedthe“warmwater”likenobodyknewaboutit..Andpeoplebeinganal..BeingitalianIamsofedupofthis.Likecallingsandwiches,panini(withoutunderstandingthemeaning,paninisisthepinnacleaspaniniisalreadyplural)andalongsequelofothernosensicalstuff!Caffeelattewegiveittokidstolearntodrinkcoffeeoradultwhentheyfeelundertheweather..Cappuccinoisamorningthingthatyouwanttocallitin15differentwaysbecauseyoupourthefoamedmilkfromleftorright…Ifthismakesmoneythengoahead Reply Iforgottosaythatmanyofthesesupercoffeefanaticsthendrinkthese“supercoffees”inapapercupandtheonlythingyousmelliswarmpaper!Greatstuffforonly3.5pounds! Reply StarbucksinLA–atleasteverysingleoneI’vebeenin–isdisgustinginthatthemilkisscaled,rescaled,over-scalded–resultingincappuccinothattastesnothinglikecoffee,onlyscaldedmilk.Itdoesn’tmatterhowmanyshotsofespresso,it’stheover-scaledmilkthatruinsitall. OrangeCountyStarbucksseemtoknowhowtomakethedrinksandneverover-scald.SamewiththecolddrinksI’vetried,OrangeCountybeatsthepantsoffLA.UnfortunatesinceInowliveinLA. Reply AfterreadingyourarticleIstilldon’tknowthedifference.Whataboutthevolumeofmilk?Ina220mlcupIuse90mlofmilkforalattebutonly60mlforcappuccinotoallowforthefroth.Itsoundslikeaflatwhiteusesthesameamountasalatteifthereislessfoam,thenlogicallythereshouldbemoremilk.Also,itwouldhelptoknowaboutthefrothingtechnique.Thesteamnozzleishelddeeperinthemilkforalattethanforacappuccino.Wheredoyouholditforaflatwhite?Howaboutagridwithcafeaulait,flatwhite,latte,cappuccino,macchiatoandnoisetteshowingsizeandtypeofcup,amountofespresso,amountofmilk,ratiomilk/microfoam/froth,swirlingandpouringtechniques.Thatwouldbehandy!Iwouldevenputitonmykitchenwall! Reply IbecameacoffeeconnoisseurwhilelivinginSeattle,WAformanyyears.AsIdevelopedmytasteforcoffeedrinks,IrealizedthatIlikedastrongcoffeedrink,butsooftenthelattesweretoomilky,andthecapsweretoostrong.Itwasn’tuntilItravelledtoNewZealandthatIfoundmyperfectdrink,theflatwhite!!!ItwaseverythingIhadbeentryingtoconveytothebaristasallthoseyears.WhenIreturnedtomylocalcafe,Ihadtoschoolthebaristastotheartandskillofmakingaflatwhite.…Theystilldon’ttotallygetitthough!NowI’mgettingreadytomovetoFrance,wheresadly,itisvirtuallyimpossibletofindaFW.LookslikeI’llbeinvestinginmyownmachine!ImissthoseamazingcoffeesinNZ!! Reply Thankyouforclarifyingthemysteryinmymind!Ijustlikedrinkingcoffeebutdon’tnotknowtoomuchaboutcoffee,sothedifferencebetweenlatteandflatwhitehadconfusedmeforalongtime. Reply Iamcomingtotheconclusionthataflatwhiteissimplyaproperlymadecappuccino.Acappuccinoshouldneverhavestifffoam.ThankstoStarbucksfortheinternationalruiningofthegreatestcoffeedrink. Reply Thisarticlewasveryhelpfulandgivesmeabetterappreciationofcoffeedrinks.Iamnotacoffeeexpert,butIlovetheflatwhite.Tometheflatwhiteislikeacombinationoflatteandcappuccino,butwithasmootherflavorandconsistency. Reply Flatwhite?Morecoffeelessmilk. Ohlike6shotsand100mlmilk? Reply Flatwhite?Morecoffeelessmilk. Reply Latteistexturedmilkandespresso–right? Cappuccinoistexturedmilkandespressowithchocolatesprinkle–right? Flatwhiteisnonsense–right? Reply “Latteistexturedmilkandespresso–right?Cappuccinoistexturedmilkandespressowithchocolatesprinkle–right?Flatwhiteisnonsense–right?:”N-o.Yourreply?Thatwasnonsense. Reply lol–IfindAustraliansandtheirobsessionwithcoffeetobesofunny.It;smilkandcoffee–alsotheideaofatinylittlecupofcoffeessooddtome–ittakes10minutestomakeitand30secondtodrinkit–itgoescoldbeforeyoucanevenenjoyit.Whynotjustmakeapropercupofcoffee? Reply Whatgetslostinallthisisthebase,areallygoodpulledshotofespresso.Milkcoversalotofillsbutanygoodcoffeedrinkisbetterwithagood,balancedshotofespresso.Maybesomeshouldconsideracorridorwhichhasequalpartsofespressoandmilk,thenyoucanmorefullyenjoythecomplexitiesofthecoffeebean. Reply OverhereintheUKIamabsolutelyfedupwithreturningmycoffeeafterspooningallthefrothfromthetopofalatte,insomeplacestheircupsizesarethatsmallthatifyouordera“regular”coffeeyouareleftwithverylittlecoffeetodrinkafterremovingthefroth.OnlyyesterdayIwasservedamediumlatteinCostawithabout50mmoffrothonthetop!. Thetemperature…wellIwishIhadapoundforeverylukewarmeffortIhavereturned. Reply Pingback:Beans,milkandmigration:howglobalisationproducedtheflatwhitecoffee(andwhyyoushoulddrinkit)–TEDxViennaMagazine LeaveaReplyCancelreplyYouremailaddresswillnotbepublished.Requiredfieldsaremarked*Comment*Name Email Δ Postnavigation PreviousPreviouspost:HuntingtheFlatWhitearoundtheworldNextNextpost:CoffeebeansfromYorkCoffeeEmporium ✖ brent Greatarticle.Ire-tweetedit.MywebsitecontainsatravelstorythatfeaturesadescriptionofcoffeeinNZ.Cheers Reply Po Ihaven’tseen‘stifffroth’oncappuccinossincethe90s Reply alex CometoDublinandIllmakeastiffcappuccino..hereitscalledDrcappuccino… Reply dimitris InGreecewherewehavegonethecoffeeandespeciallycapuccinosalongwaythereisspecialmilkforcafeteriastomakecapuccino.Alsothereisadifferentkindofmilksoldonlytocafeteriastomakecapuccinofreddo(cold).Thismilkwhenwhippedinanelectricshakerproducesaverystifffrothorfoamlikewaterycreamorwateryyoghurt.Wealsomakeespressofreddowhichiswhippedinanelectricshakerandmakesastiffcrematoacoldcoffee.Nowyoumightbewonderingwhysomeonedrinkacoldcapuccinoorcoldespresso.IthinkthishastodowiththehotclimateinGreece. Reply mark Iwastrainedinthe90’asoIstillmakedrinksprethirdstage.Ilearnedtomakeflatwhitesbyaskingmultiplecustomers.AfterreadingthisarticleIamamazedIamdeadonwithmakingflatwhites.Ilovemakingcappuccinofoamthatstickstoaspoonheldupsidedown.Ialsolovetofreepourmydrinks.IdonotpourlatteartbutthatisOKbecauseIspendmytimeroastingourcoffeetoperfection. Reply SaraMMarcy Thenyou’renotatanactualcoffeeshop Reply PeterThomson I’malsogettingsickofbaristasaskingmewhetherIwantasmallFlatWhiteoralargeFlatWhite.ImighthavetorevisetheposttonotethataFlatWhitedoeskindofimplyamediumsize.Ithinkit’sbecauseinagoodcafeallthedrinkswillbefreepouredwithaniceevenmixofvelvet,frothandliquidmilk.Hmmmm…. Reply ScottA Iorderalargeflatwhite(16oz)fromthecoffeeshop(panthercoffee)inmiamifl,andtheyseemtomakeitflawlessly,samegoeswiththerelargecapsandlattes.Thereaprettywellknownplaceandwinmanylatteartcompetitions,soiguesstheyknowwhattheredoing,butstillalargeflatwhiteisverymuchpossibleifleftuptoskilledbaristas Reply JesusGlz It´slikeaskingfora16ozespresso…Therewouldbeforsureanidiotthatwouldorderit,andadumbenoughbaristathatwillmakeit… Orelse,youcouldperhapsmakea6or8shots16ozflatwhite…butformeit´stheratioofespresso:milkthatmakesaflatwhitewhatitis. Reply Fred Ofcoursetherewouldbedifferenceontheratioofmilk,espressoandthesizeofcupwhenthebaristawouldaskedyouthesizeofyourflatwhite.It’snotadamnedthingaspartofthebaristawhocanmakeyousmallorlargeone,thethingis,isitreallyaflatwhite? Reply phillip WellinAustraliawhereimatrainedbaristathereisahugedifferenceandpeoplegetmadifyoudoitwrong,aflstwhiteverylittlefrothacouplemm,alateehasabout8-15mmandacappuccinohasabout2cmoffrothandtheyareallavailableinsmall,mediumorlarge Reply alex Soaflatwhiteismilkierthanthelatter,latteismorevelvety…thatshowIdoit..butthenagain..hereinIrelandisonlyafashion/trend Shambleclown IvisitedAustraliaforthefirsttimeandexperiencedtheflatwhitethereandveryimpressed.HowyoustateditishowIunderstoodaflatwhite,latteandcappuccinotobe.BackintheUKtheyarebasicallyashotofespressowithadashofmilk. Maggie AmentothatPhilip. Ifyouwalkintoacafeandseeabaristawithaspoonfiddlingaround,spooningfoamandholdingitbackwalkbackoutifyouareinsearchofgoodcoffee! I’manAussiebaristaandifyouneedtoholdbackfoamwithaspoonyou’vetexturedthemilkwrong,dumpitandstartagain. Itisastoundingmeallthisdebateaboutaflatwhitebetweencountries…. marny AsavisitortoAustraliaisoverymissagoodAustralianflatwhite! Iwillneverforgetseeing3to5coffeehousesinarow…..withonehavingalineupdownthestreetandaroundthecorner…andwewouldwaitinlineforthatone. IthoughtBraziliansmadeexcellentcoffee,asdotheAustrians…butnoonemakescoffeeliketheAustralians….theylivefortheircoffee. Flatwhite…..NorthAmericanshavenoidea….unlesstheybringbaristasfromAustralia! Jon Yepthat’smyviewaswell Duke That’swhatI’velearntbythecostomersinAU.Nowadays,I’mworkinginSouthkoreawherejusttheFlatWhitebecameastrandy,OnceImadeAFlatWhitelikeAussieDrinks,alllocalbaristasaidthat‘It’sJustCoffeeMilkwithBitofVelvetFroth.DefinitelyItisnotFlatWhiteDude’SoI’mjustfollowingtheirInvisibleRules:(. Marta Absolutelyagree Reply Dane Their*andthey’re* Reply Andy HowcomeIfinditsaystheyra5ozdrink Reply Jacqui InNZwecanbuyalargeflatwhiteanywhere.Ithoughtthatcoffeechainssoldcappuccino,latteandflatwhiteasstandard.Travellingaroundtheworldwehavebeensurprisedathowthflatwhiteseemstobeakiwithing. Reply Tere Iwanttofacebookyourpostaboutthedifferencebetweenflatwhitesandlattesbutthere’snoprettybluebuttonthatmakesthisveryeasyformetodo*sighsdramatically*Thereareavidcoffeedrinkersamongstmyfriendswhoneedtoknow!! Reply PeterThomson Goodpoint!I’veaddedsharebuttons(butthey’renotasprettyasI’dlike).Gladyoulikedthepost. Reply marny Alatteisamilkycoffee…….aflatwhiteisanexperience! Reply Mike Baristasaresickofbeingaskedtomakeaflatwhitewithoutbeingtoldhowyoulikeit.It’snotagood/badbaristathing.I’vehadseveralvaryingideasofwhataflatwhiteis.Myfinalthoughtisthatpeoplejustwanttoaskforsomethingdifficultanddifferent.90percentofflatwhitesI’vemadewe’rebasedonpretension.Somewere8oznofoam,somewere16ozlattesdisguisedasflatwhites.VeryfewAustraliansevenknowwhatatrueflatwhiteis.Surelyifyoubelievetherearebadbaristas,thenyoucanbelieveinbadcustomers.Perhapsyouarethelatter. Reply PeterThomson Thanksforsharingabarista’seyeviewofthedebate.Sowhat’sa“true”flatwhite? Reply ChrisM I’mgoingtojustjumpinhere4yearslatecauseIjustcametoyourwebsitelookingfortheanswerforthisquestion. Iusedto(10yearsago)beabaristaatafewverybusyItalianrestaurantsinLondonwherewewerealltrainedbyGaggiaoncoffee.Flatwhitesdidn’texistbackthen. Goingfromyourdescriptioninthearticle,you’vegotlattescorrect,yourdescriptionofaflatwhiteisaproperlymadetraditionalItaliancappuccino,andwhatyou’redescribingasacappuccinoisaburntcappuccino.Ifyousteamthemilktothepointwhereyouhavestifffoamit’sbecauseyou’vedenaturedtheproteinwhichwillgiveabittertasteandwon’tmixwiththecoffee. Ithinkthisallcomesaboutbecauseof90s“Cappuccinos”thatlooklikeaMrWhippyicecream. Reply Mike Baristasaresickofbeingaskedtomakeaflatwhitewithoutbeingtoldhowyoulikeit.It’snotagood/badbaristathing.I’vehadseveralvaryingideasofwhataflatwhiteis.Myfinalthoughtisthatpeoplejustwanttoaskforsomethingdifficultanddifferent.90percentofflatwhitesI’vemadewe’rebasedonpretension.Somewere8oznofoam,somewere16ozlattesdisguisedasflatwhites.VeryfewAustraliansevenknowwhatatrueflatwhiteis.Surelyifyoubelievetherearebadbaristas,thenyoucanbelieveinbadcustomers.Perhapsyouarethelatter. Reply PeterThomson Thanksforsharingabarista’seyeviewofthedebate.Sowhat’sa“true”flatwhite? Reply Jo I’mabaristainAustralia.Beforethis,IgrewupinGB,usedtoenjoylattesandthenstartedorderingtheStarbucksflatwhiteswhentheycamearound.IpreferredtheratioofcoffeetomilkbutIremembernodifferenceintexture. Soaflatwhiteoverhere,whereitoriginatedisdifferenttoUK,soIhavebeentaught.ItISaboutthetexture.Zarraffa’scoffee(anAfricanthemedchain,cafeareaitselfismuchlikeStarbucks)taughtmetonotaddtextureintothemilk,holdingaperfectcremaabovethemilk.Mostcoffeeshopswillfreepourandstillmaintainthisbutaspatula/spooncanbeusedtoholdbackALLtexture.However,independentcafeswillstillgetitwrongandaddtextureanditoftenvergesonalatte. ImustsayIdidfinditinterestinghowdifferentaflatwhiteisinUKwhereIalwaysthoughtitwasmorecoffee-rich,towhereitoriginatedfrominAustralia. IpersonallypreferflatwhitesinUK. Butthat’sbevauseIlikestrongerlattesinasmallcupwithsilkysmoothtexture.IjustorderalattehereinAus. Reply Kim TheflatwhiteactuallyoriginatedinNewZealand,justlikeLorde,RussellCrowe,CrowdedHouseandthePavlova!Ifyouwanttotastearealflatwhite,NZiswhereyouwillfindit. Reply Jock *onethirdofCrowdedHouse🙂 Vili Don’tforgettheHobbit. Brakeslast ItisclaimedbyAustraliansthattheflatwhitewasfirstservedinSydney,Australiainthe1980satMoorsEspressobar. Jax Absolutely Paula Ah.Theclassicdebateandalwaysstealingourstuff.AtleastinNZyoucangoanywhereandexpectgreatcoffee.Werockthosebeans!!!!!I’mintheprocessofdiscoveringgreatcoffeeinIreland. RobOkif Ithinkthatthe“flat”inflatwhitereferstonobubbles,asinthethemilkisnotfrothyorvelvetyatall.Iabsolutelyrestrictallthebubblystuff.Itisnothingmorethanhotmilk.Afterthepour,thecoffeeisasingle,homogeneouscolour.Theclueisintheverynameofthedrink.Alotofnewwavebaristiwhohavebeentrainedinalotofthemoderntrendychainstomakevelvetfoameverytime.Andyes,IamAustralianandhavebeenabarista. Reply Vili IamalsoahighlyexperiencedbaristalivinginAustraliamywholelife.Grownupwithflatwhitesmywholelife.WhenIwasintroducedtoStarbucksandAmericanflatwhitesitwasnotevenclosetowhatIknew.JustanAmericanlattewithadifferentname.Flatwhiteshavealwaysbeenjustalayerofmicrofoambutnotenoughtobreakthecrema.Asoneofmyemployersoncetoldme,justenoughmicrofoamtodolatteart.Ithinkthatwasjustamarketingploytoshowoffbarista’sespeciallyinMelbournewhichhascreatedallthisconfusion.Usuallywhatyouexpecttogetwhenyouorderaflatwhiteiswhatthenamesuggests.Awhitecoffee(lot’sofmilk)withnofoam(flat).There’snodripcoffeeinAustraliasowhitereferstoespressowithmilkjustlikeablackcoffeereferstoespressowithoutmilk.Hencetheflatwhite.LongblacksareAmericanosandshortblacksareespresso’s. Bella Yesyesyes!!!FinallysomeoneIagreewith! ItialianStudent (NotethatinItalianthemasculinepluralgoesfrom-o-to-i-somacchiatotomachiatti.Thefemininepluralgoesfrom-a-to-e-sobaristatobariste.) Hello Lol.Iagree Reply Marc Justgotmyfirstcoffeemachine,butlookingforsomeniceflatwhitecoffeecupsalittlebitdifferenttothenormalcups Reply PeterThomson Bodumdosomeinterestingdoublewalledglasscoffeecups. Reply Ben Aflatwhiteisasmall,strong,milkycoffee.AsfarasI’mconcerned,asabarista,thebestwayis2shots,silkymilkandtotaldrinknobiggerthan7oz. Reply Ben Aflatwhiteisasmall,strong,milkycoffee.AsfarasI’mconcerned,asabarista,thebestwayis2shots,silkymilkandtotaldrinknobiggerthan7oz. Reply Kevin That’saPiccolochampion…. Reply Sandy Howdoyougetagoodcupofcoffeeintheseplaces?Seriously.Nomilk,nocream,justanicecupofcoffeefromafrenchpress,withalltheessentialoilsandaromas,andevenasmilefrombehindthecounter.Isthatjustsomethingyoucan’thaveinacafethathastakensteamingmilkandpouringitintoanadvancedartform?SincetheadventofStarbucksandcafeswithexpressomachines,youcan’tevengetagoodcupofexpresso,andcertainlynotasimplecupofwellmadecoffee.Iwalkin,lookforcoffee,andwalkout.Cafesshouldhavecoffeeonthemenu,inmyopinion. Reply Natasha YoumostdefinitelycanorderaFrenchpressatanyStarbucksandsurelymostcafés.Allyouhavetodoisputintheefforttoaskthebarista.Andperhaps“coffee”isn’tonthemenubecausemostplaceshopeyourealisethatit’sa“coffeehouse”andtherefore,obviouslyhasagoodregularcupofcoffeewaitingforyouifyousochooseit. Reply Chelle GotoHawaiiandNewZealand(southisland),frommyexperiencetheyhaveamazingblackcoffee. Reply Paula AnywhereinNZ Reply Jon Ohyeah.Yousoundlikeyouknowwhatyou’retalkingaboutMr.Expresso.(Interestingarticlebtw) Reply Sandy Howdoyougetagoodcupofcoffeeintheseplaces?Seriously.Nomilk,nocream,justanicecupofcoffeefromafrenchpress,withalltheessentialoilsandaromas,andevenasmilefrombehindthecounter.Isthatjustsomethingyoucan’thaveinacafethathastakensteamingmilkandpouringitintoanadvancedartform?SincetheadventofStarbucksandcafeswithexpressomachines,youcan’tevengetagoodcupofexpresso,andcertainlynotasimplecupofwellmadecoffee.Iwalkin,lookforcoffee,andwalkout.Cafesshouldhavecoffeeonthemenu,inmyopinion. Reply Sophie Espresso Reply ExpressoLOL +1 Reply RJMartinez THANKYOU!!!Lol Reply Natasha YoumostdefinitelycanorderaFrenchpressatanyStarbucksandsurelymostcafés.Allyouhavetodoisputintheefforttoaskthebarista.Andperhaps“coffee”isn’tonthemenubecausemostplaceshopeyourealisethatit’sa“coffeehouse”andtherefore,obviouslyhasagoodregularcupofcoffeewaitingforyouifyousochooseit. Reply Chelle GotoHawaiiandNewZealand(southisland),frommyexperiencetheyhaveamazingblackcoffee. Reply Paula AnywhereinNZ Reply Jon Ohyeah.Yousoundlikeyouknowwhatyou’retalkingaboutMr.Expresso.(Interestingarticlebtw) Reply RJMartinez DoyoujustLOOKforthecoffee,ordoyouask?Starbucks,forone,shouldALWAYShavebrewedcoffeeavailable(manywiththeCloverbrewer,whichgivesyoumanyroastoptionsalldaylong),butwhilenot“onthemenu,”youshouldbeabletoaskforaFrenchpressanytime.Ifyouknowastorethatyouthinkdoesn’tofferthis,askthemanager.Someemployeesaren’tawaresimplybecauseit’snotaskedforoftenenough! Reply SassyinDC Myhusband,daughterandIjustreturnedfromavisittoLondon.WestayedinHampsteadandstoppeddailyatGingerandWhiteforourflatwhitefix–addictiveanddelicious. Reply SassyinDC Myhusband,daughterandIjustreturnedfromavisittoLondon.WestayedinHampsteadandstoppeddailyatGingerandWhiteforourflatwhitefix–addictiveanddelicious. Reply VitoSartor FlatWhite?!Ratherunfortunate(andevendepressing)nameforanespressobaseddrinkthatshouldgiveyouazingakintoseeingthatredFerrariparkedoutsidethe“ThirdNoiseCafe”.CoffeeisstartingtoturnintotheabominationthatStarbucksis.Espressoshouldnotbelikeliquefiedlicoriceandthatpatheticluke-warmliquidunderthefoamofaCappuccioshouldnotremindoneassomebodyonthisforumsaidof“CambellsTomatoSoup”orchicoryorevenworseitshouldnotleaveyouwonderingifthat’swhaturinetasteslike.Uncaffeperpiacere.Ristretto?Lungo?Macchiato?Lungomacchiato?Doppio?Doppiomacchiato?Cappuccio?Cappucciodoppio?Cappucciodoppiosenzaschuima?Caffecorretto?Lattemacchiato?Nocciolato?GranitadiCaffe.Affogato?Anyone? Reply Chelle Iratherthinkaffogatoismuchmoredepressingname….Itmeansdrowned! Reply RJMartinez ⬆GoodoneChelle! Reply SSmith Ristretto-lesswaterthroughtheshot,abouthalfbutwiththesameamountofgrinds. Lungo-longshotwithmorewater,sameamountofgrinds. Macchiato-tomark/marked,traditionalmacchiatoconsistsofespresso“marked”withadollopoffoam. LungoMacchiato-longshotmacchiato Doppio-double DoppioMacchiato-twoespressoshotsw/adollopoffoam Affogoto-gelato(oricecream)withespressooverthetop LatteMacchiato-Lattewithshotspouredontopofthefoam,insteadofmixedinwiththepouredmilk? “senzaschuima?Caffecorretto?…Nocciolato?GranitadiCaffe”Thoseescapedme.However,notbadforan“abominable”Starbucksbarista,no?It’sallabouthowmuchthebaristacares,notaboutthecompany. Bytheway,Ireallylikedthisarticle.I’vehadmaybetwopeoplerequestflatwhitesandcouldn’tfigureouthowtheyweredifferentthanalatte(thoughonepersonsworeitwasacompletelynofoamlatte).Thismakesmoresense,andsinceI’vebeenpracticingmylatteart,it’swhatI’vebeendoingwhichisreallyhelpfultoknow. Reply JoshuaLies *schiuma–foam,senzaschiuma–foamless. Caffècorretto–espressowithbooze,eggrappaorsambucca,dependingonregion. Nocciolato–it’saCampagnathing,Coffeewithcocoaandhazelnutflavouring(thesamestuffusedtomakenutella). Granita–aflavouredicedrink,andinthiscasemadewithcoffee,andusuallytoppedwithcreamandsweetened. Reply CheesyJohn Macchiatomeansstained.Englishhasthecognateimmaculate,asintheimmaculateconception,asinnot‘stained’withoriginalsin.Fascinatingstuff? And,yeah,latte’macchiatoismilk‘stained’withcoffee. Inbell’Italia,sometimeshearthephrase“latte’caffe'”tomeanaverymilkycoffeeorrathermilkthathascoffeeaddedratherthantheotherwayaround. AndIamsureyou’veheardatleastoneofthestoriesbehindthecappuccino.It’snamedfortheCapuchinfriars,anddependingonthestoryitsmightbebecauseitwasinventedbyacapuchin,orbecauseitlookslikeacapuchin(theywearbrown,hoodedcloaks,andaretonsured). Reply Bean-sama Really?!Myunderstandingwasthatmacchiatotranslatesto‘marked’andwasespressomarkedwithmilkratherthanthereverse?!?!! Reply VitoSartor FlatWhite?!Ratherunfortunate(andevendepressing)nameforanespressobaseddrinkthatshouldgiveyouazingakintoseeingthatredFerrariparkedoutsidethe“ThirdNoiseCafe”.CoffeeisstartingtoturnintotheabominationthatStarbucksis.Espressoshouldnotbelikeliquefiedlicoriceandthatpatheticluke-warmliquidunderthefoamofaCappuccioshouldnotremindoneassomebodyonthisforumsaidof“CambellsTomatoSoup”orchicoryorevenworseitshouldnotleaveyouwonderingifthat’swhaturinetasteslike.Uncaffeperpiacere.Ristretto?Lungo?Macchiato?Lungomacchiato?Doppio?Doppiomacchiato?Cappuccio?Cappucciodoppio?Cappucciodoppiosenzaschuima?Caffecorretto?Lattemacchiato?Nocciolato?GranitadiCaffe.Affogato?Anyone? Reply Chelle Iratherthinkaffogatoismuchmoredepressingname….Itmeansdrowned! Reply RJMartinez ⬆GoodoneChelle! Reply SSmith Ristretto-lesswaterthroughtheshot,abouthalfbutwiththesameamountofgrinds. Lungo-longshotwithmorewater,sameamountofgrinds. Macchiato-tomark/marked,traditionalmacchiatoconsistsofespresso“marked”withadollopoffoam. LungoMacchiato-longshotmacchiato Doppio-double DoppioMacchiato-twoespressoshotsw/adollopoffoam Affogoto-gelato(oricecream)withespressooverthetop LatteMacchiato-Lattewithshotspouredontopofthefoam,insteadofmixedinwiththepouredmilk? “senzaschuima?Caffecorretto?…Nocciolato?GranitadiCaffe”Thoseescapedme.However,notbadforan“abominable”Starbucksbarista,no?It’sallabouthowmuchthebaristacares,notaboutthecompany. Bytheway,Ireallylikedthisarticle.I’vehadmaybetwopeoplerequestflatwhitesandcouldn’tfigureouthowtheyweredifferentthanalatte(thoughonepersonsworeitwasacompletelynofoamlatte).Thismakesmoresense,andsinceI’vebeenpracticingmylatteart,it’swhatI’vebeendoingwhichisreallyhelpfultoknow. Reply JoshuaLies *schiuma–foam,senzaschiuma–foamless. Caffècorretto–espressowithbooze,eggrappaorsambucca,dependingonregion. Nocciolato–it’saCampagnathing,Coffeewithcocoaandhazelnutflavouring(thesamestuffusedtomakenutella). Granita–aflavouredicedrink,andinthiscasemadewithcoffee,andusuallytoppedwithcreamandsweetened. Reply CheesyJohn Macchiatomeansstained.Englishhasthecognateimmaculate,asintheimmaculateconception,asinnot‘stained’withoriginalsin.Fascinatingstuff? And,yeah,latte’macchiatoismilk‘stained’withcoffee. Inbell’Italia,sometimeshearthephrase“latte’caffe'”tomeanaverymilkycoffeeorrathermilkthathascoffeeaddedratherthantheotherwayaround. AndIamsureyou’veheardatleastoneofthestoriesbehindthecappuccino.It’snamedfortheCapuchinfriars,anddependingonthestoryitsmightbebecauseitwasinventedbyacapuchin,orbecauseitlookslikeacapuchin(theywearbrown,hoodedcloaks,andaretonsured). Reply Bean-sama Really?!Myunderstandingwasthatmacchiatotranslatesto‘marked’andwasespressomarkedwithmilkratherthanthereverse?!?!! Reply DavideBirse Wehavereturnedtothe‘FlatWhite’IssueagainuphereinScotland. Ihavereadandre-readthroughyourpostsconcerningthesubject,andpostedononeawhileago,butmoretimehaspassedandweandtheindustryhavematured. ItotallyagreewithyourdescriptionofaFlatWhiteaslaiddown.Oursinourcoffeebaris: –6ozglasscup,tulip –doubleespressoofanyblendorSO –toppedupto6ozwithcorrectlystretchedmilklikeyouwoulduseforalatte. Myboneofcontentionwiththeindustryjustnow(especiallyCostaetc)isthattheyseemtobepromotingthatCappuciniandLattearelesserdrinksbecausethemilkisofalesserquality. Ithinkweshouldmovetowardsallbaristibeingatagoodenoughskillleveltoproduceallthevariationsofmilkbasedcoffeeaccordingtotheirratiolevelsratherthanlackofquality? Reply Jax Yourflatwhitesoundsyum! Reply DavideBirse Wehavereturnedtothe‘FlatWhite’IssueagainuphereinScotland. Ihavereadandre-readthroughyourpostsconcerningthesubject,andpostedononeawhileago,butmoretimehaspassedandweandtheindustryhavematured. ItotallyagreewithyourdescriptionofaFlatWhiteaslaiddown.Oursinourcoffeebaris: –6ozglasscup,tulip –doubleespressoofanyblendorSO –toppedupto6ozwithcorrectlystretchedmilklikeyouwoulduseforalatte. Myboneofcontentionwiththeindustryjustnow(especiallyCostaetc)isthattheyseemtobepromotingthatCappuciniandLattearelesserdrinksbecausethemilkisofalesserquality. Ithinkweshouldmovetowardsallbaristibeingatagoodenoughskillleveltoproduceallthevariationsofmilkbasedcoffeeaccordingtotheirratiolevelsratherthanlackofquality? Reply Jax Yourflatwhitesoundsyum! Reply SamuelMallett Annoyinglyforme,myfirsteverFlatWhitewasinaCostaCoffee—what’smoreannoyingisthatit’sbeenthebestonethatI’vehadtodate.I’vetriedahandfuloftimessincethentogetwhatIthoughtwasgoingtobeaFlatWhite,butinsteadIjustgetabigpileoffrothoveramilkycoffee. I’llmainlyorderanEspresso,MacchiatoorAmericanoandshyawayfromotheroptionsasIdon’tlikethemilktotakeoverthetasteandtexture.ThethingIlikeaboutaFlatWhiteispoint4.inyour‘WhatisaFlatWhite’post—“freepouredmilksothatthefoamisfoldedthroughthewholedrinkandthereisnodiscernablelayerseparationbetweenliquidcoffeeandfoam”. PeoplemaysayI’mdrinkinginthewrongplaces(CardiffnotLondon),andperhapsIam,butifonlytherewasastandardsoyouknewwhatyouweregoingtoget.I’mgoingtobeabitmoreinquisitivenexttimeIorder,andcheckthatthebaristaandIareonthesamepagebeforeanymilkgetspoured,hopesgetcrushedandtearsstarttofall. Reply Brian'sCoffeeSpot Samuel, Ifyou’restillinCardiff,tryThePlanCafe(intheMorganArcade),TorreCafe(outsidethecastle)andWaterlooTea(threebranchesnow).Allofthemshouldbeabletomakeyouaflatwhitethat’llknockthesocksoffaCostaCoffeeflatwhite(forwhatit’sworth,I’veneverhadagoodflatwhiteatCosta,butthenI’veonlytriedmaybetwoorthreebeforegivingupindisgust;asfarasI’mconcerned,aCostaflatwhiteiswaytoobig). Brian. Reply GeorgeHill Samuel,IlikeCostaflatwhitesaswell.Youcanordertheminanindependentcoffeeshopbuttheyareveryvariable. WevisitNorthernIrelandfrequentlyandourlocalrestaurant,Harry’sShack,can’tproduceagoodespressotosavetheirlivesbuttheirflatwhitesareexquisite. LavazzaatBelfastcityairportproducesacappuccinothatisneartoaflatwhite.StarbucksintheUKarebestavoidedallround. Reply Ed Peter, Justaquicknotetosay“thankyou.”Ireadreviews/articleslikethisallthetimeandtypicallyendupsearchingformoreinfobecausethefirstfewpostsIreadarelackingsubstance.Thenontherareoccasion,Ireadapiecelikethisoneandjustsimplyappreciatehowwellsomepeoplewrite.IreallylikedyourdescriptionofFlayWhite–articulate,informativeandconcise.Thanksagain! Reply Ed Peter, Justaquicknotetosay“thankyou.”Ireadreviews/articleslikethisallthetimeandtypicallyendupsearchingformoreinfobecausethefirstfewpostsIreadarelackingsubstance.Thenontherareoccasion,Ireadapiecelikethisoneandjustsimplyappreciatehowwellsomepeoplewrite.IreallylikedyourdescriptionofFlayWhite–articulate,informativeandconcise.Thanksagain! Reply Jacki Excellentdescription.IhavefamilyvisitingfromoverseasandIhadneverheardofaflatwhite.AsitturnsoutIhavebeenmakingthemathomeandcallingitalatte.IguessIdidn’tknowhowlatteswe’resupposedtobemade.:O Reply Jacki Excellentdescription.IhavefamilyvisitingfromoverseasandIhadneverheardofaflatwhite.AsitturnsoutIhavebeenmakingthemathomeandcallingitalatte.IguessIdidn’tknowhowlatteswe’resupposedtobemade.:O Reply Nifty Iagreethataflatwhiteshouldonlybeservedin7ozandwhenofferedwhichsizeIknowI’minthewrongplace I’dquestionhowasingleshotfwcanhitthemark. Reply ian Oksoafter20yearsofdrinkingandmaking,itdoesnotchange: 6-8ozdoubleshotristretto,slightlycoolermicrofoamtexturedmilk,freepoursothemilkanddoubleespressocombinetoasilkyconsistency.Preferenceevencoverbetweencremaandmilk,(flatandwhite).Nopretention,butdoneproperlyinthehandofanexperiencedbarista,tasteofheaven. Reply Bean-sama THANKYOU!…prettysuretheristrettoshotisjustasvitalastherestofit….. Reply ian Oksoafter20yearsofdrinkingandmaking,itdoesnotchange: 6-8ozdoubleshotristretto,slightlycoolermicrofoamtexturedmilk,freepoursothemilkanddoubleespressocombinetoasilkyconsistency.Preferenceevencoverbetweencremaandmilk,(flatandwhite).Nopretention,butdoneproperlyinthehandofanexperiencedbarista,tasteofheaven. Reply Bean-sama THANKYOU!…prettysuretheristrettoshotisjustasvitalastherestofit….. Reply Chris Ireadthearticleandstillhaveabsolutelynoideawhatthedifferenceisbetweenaflatwhiteandlatte. Fromthearticle,alattehasmilkandfroth,butaflatwhitehasfrothandmilk. Baffling. Reply JoshuaLies microfoam.It’sthecreamymouthfeelthatthemicrofoamgives,andifcombinedwithristrettoasopposedtoespresso,tendstobe‘sweeter’andmoredelicateoverall.It’slikethepolaroppositeoftheburnt,overroasted,doublelong,bitter‘espresso’youmightgetthatreducescoffeetoacaffeinedeliverysysteminsteadofthedelicious,complex,beverageitcanbe. Reply Chris Ireadthearticleandstillhaveabsolutelynoideawhatthedifferenceisbetweenaflatwhiteandlatte. Fromthearticle,alattehasmilkandfroth,butaflatwhitehasfrothandmilk. Baffling. Reply JoshuaLies microfoam.It’sthecreamymouthfeelthatthemicrofoamgives,andifcombinedwithristrettoasopposedtoespresso,tendstobe‘sweeter’andmoredelicateoverall.It’slikethepolaroppositeoftheburnt,overroasted,doublelong,bitter‘espresso’youmightgetthatreducescoffeetoacaffeinedeliverysysteminsteadofthedelicious,complex,beverageitcanbe. Reply Dhara Asabarista,thereareafewmoredifferencesbetweenaflatwhiteandalattethatyou’vemissedout. Flatwhitesshouldbeservedatalowertemperaturethanlattes,around54°C.Wholemilkisnormallyusedasstandardasitfrothssignificantlybetter,andgivesitmoreofavelvetyfeeltoit,thoughyoucanofcourserequestothermilks. Themaindifferencebetweenaflatwhiteandalatteistheproportionofespressotomilk,theplaceIworkatservesitina6ozcup,whichreallygivesitastrongerfeel. Themostirritatingthingiswhencustomersattempttoordera“largeflatwhite”asitsimplydoesn’texist,yettheyrefusetolistenandclaimthatthey“orderitatCostaallthetime” *sighs* Reply Bill What?Abaristathatthinksa“largeflatwhite”doesn’texist?That’scrazytalk.Flatwhitescanabsolutelybescaledup.Alargeflatshouldsimplyincreasetheamountofcoffeetosustainthatnicekickofaflatwhite.Withthesamemicrofoamcharacterasaregularflat,youjustneedabasketthatcanfitmorethan21grams.Reallypackitin,andmakemealargeflatwhite,nosugarthanks. Reply Lucas what?nosuchthingaslargeflatwhite?ifaregularflatwhiteisadoubleshotofespressoinaslightlysmallercup,thenfillrestwithmicrofoam.ThenalargeFlatwhiteisaquadroupleshot,inalargecupandfillrestwithmicrofoam. Reply Dhara Asabarista,thereareafewmoredifferencesbetweenaflatwhiteandalattethatyou’vemissedout. Flatwhitesshouldbeservedatalowertemperaturethanlattes,around54°C.Wholemilkisnormallyusedasstandardasitfrothssignificantlybetter,andgivesitmoreofavelvetyfeeltoit,thoughyoucanofcourserequestothermilks. Themaindifferencebetweenaflatwhiteandalatteistheproportionofespressotomilk,theplaceIworkatservesitina6ozcup,whichreallygivesitastrongerfeel. Themostirritatingthingiswhencustomersattempttoordera“largeflatwhite”asitsimplydoesn’texist,yettheyrefusetolistenandclaimthatthey“orderitatCostaallthetime” *sighs* Reply Bill What?Abaristathatthinksa“largeflatwhite”doesn’texist?That’scrazytalk.Flatwhitescanabsolutelybescaledup.Alargeflatshouldsimplyincreasetheamountofcoffeetosustainthatnicekickofaflatwhite.Withthesamemicrofoamcharacterasaregularflat,youjustneedabasketthatcanfitmorethan21grams.Reallypackitin,andmakemealargeflatwhite,nosugarthanks. Reply Lucas what?nosuchthingaslargeflatwhite?ifaregularflatwhiteisadoubleshotofespressoinaslightlysmallercup,thenfillrestwithmicrofoam.ThenalargeFlatwhiteisaquadroupleshot,inalargecupandfillrestwithmicrofoam. Reply Willo1533 Thankyouforthearticle. I’mnotmuchofacoffeedrinker,whenIwenttoNewZealandandhadaflatwhiteinRaglanIwashookedhad2or3adaylike2dollarseach.CamebacktoUSandlookedforaflatwhite.AskingforithopeingthattheywouldknowwhatIwastalkingabout.Thentheysayoh,youmeana4.50latte,Ihadalatte,andit’sjustnottheSame. Reply lynzie58 HereintheUS,thebestflatwhiteI’vehadisatPerq’sinSarasota(notachain),theyreallyknowwhatthey’redoing,arealpleasure. Reply Willo1533 Thankyouforthearticle. I’mnotmuchofacoffeedrinker,whenIwenttoNewZealandandhadaflatwhiteinRaglanIwashookedhad2or3adaylike2dollarseach.CamebacktoUSandlookedforaflatwhite.AskingforithopeingthattheywouldknowwhatIwastalkingabout.Thentheysayoh,youmeana4.50latte,Ihadalatte,andit’sjustnottheSame. Reply lynzie58 HereintheUS,thebestflatwhiteI’vehadisatPerq’sinSarasota(notachain),theyreallyknowwhatthey’redoing,arealpleasure. Reply Josh FlatWhiteismydrink.IlikeitandIknowinmostcasesI’mgoingtogetastrongcoffeebutwithmilkwhichiswhyIalwaysgoforit. LastweekIsentanemailtoCostacomplainingaboutthequalityofmylast5FlatWhites.MydisappointmenthasledmetowantingtonowcreatethemathomeandnotrelyonmylocalCosta(there’snofantasticindependentswhereIlive)buttheonequestionI’mstrugglingtogetananswertoisthecupsize…6ozor8oz?OriginCoffeeonVimeosaysnobiggerthan8andthat’swhatIuseathomebutwhilstlookingforanewmugIfoundthishttp://www.coffeehit.co.uk/cafe-supplies/coffee-cups/blue-flat-white-cup-saucer-160ml-6ozwhichsuggestsIshouldbeusinga6ozcupforFlatWhites? Would6ozwithadoubleshotcreateaperfectflatwhiteorshouldIstickwith8oz? Reply Josh FlatWhiteismydrink.IlikeitandIknowinmostcasesI’mgoingtogetastrongcoffeebutwithmilkwhichiswhyIalwaysgoforit. LastweekIsentanemailtoCostacomplainingaboutthequalityofmylast5FlatWhites.MydisappointmenthasledmetowantingtonowcreatethemathomeandnotrelyonmylocalCosta(there’snofantasticindependentswhereIlive)buttheonequestionI’mstrugglingtogetananswertoisthecupsize…6ozor8oz?OriginCoffeeonVimeosaysnobiggerthan8andthat’swhatIuseathomebutwhilstlookingforanewmugIfoundthishttp://www.coffeehit.co.uk/cafe-supplies/coffee-cups/blue-flat-white-cup-saucer-160ml-6ozwhichsuggestsIshouldbeusinga6ozcupforFlatWhites? Would6ozwithadoubleshotcreateaperfectflatwhiteorshouldIstickwith8oz? Reply MinEe ThetakeawayI’mgettinghereisthataflatwhiteisanimprovedandbetterthoughtthroughversionofalatte. Reply JoshuaLies Dependsonyourpreference.Oldschool,homemade,latteisaverymilkydrinkmadeonastovetop–thinkoftheopeningscenesofLaTerraTrema. Latteasservedincafesseemstobethishomemadestuffcommercialisedand“cheffed-up”intoamorerespectablebeverage.Insomerespectsitfeelscompromisedandalmostunitalian. Theflatwhiteseemstobecommercialfromthegroundup,rootedfirmlyintheespressomachineandsteamedmilk.AllveryMilanoandraffinato. Reply MinEe ThetakeawayI’mgettinghereisthataflatwhiteisanimprovedandbetterthoughtthroughversionofalatte. Reply JoshuaLies Dependsonyourpreference.Oldschool,homemade,latteisaverymilkydrinkmadeonastovetop–thinkoftheopeningscenesofLaTerraTrema. Latteasservedincafesseemstobethishomemadestuffcommercialisedand“cheffed-up”intoamorerespectablebeverage.Insomerespectsitfeelscompromisedandalmostunitalian. Theflatwhiteseemstobecommercialfromthegroundup,rootedfirmlyintheespressomachineandsteamedmilk.AllveryMilanoandraffinato. Reply lothair ActuallyaflatwhiteinNewZealandhashumblebeginings.Itsinterestinghearingallthecommentssomeofwhichhitthemarkotherswhichareaproductofanevolvingindustryandacorporateindustryscramblingtoemmulatetheingenuityofsmallindependentroastaryandcafenetworks. Inthe70’saFlatWhiteinAotearoawasjustanicepunchyAmericanowithsomemilk.ItevolvedwithlatteartandwasprobablyclosetowhatitisnowbytheendoftheninetiesincertainselectplacesinNewZealand.Sowhatyouarenowgettingworldwidenowwashappening20yearsagoinNewZealandandAustrailaandmuchofitisbeingcopiedfromamuchlowerstandardorpoorerstartingpoint.Greatbeanswithgoodroastprofilesandrunningshotsandstretchingmilktoperfectionallhavetobenailedotherwisenomatterwhattheratio’sofmilk/espressooftentheresultingcoffeeissad. Thatsaidthereareamazingcoffee’stobehadandtherealskillisfindingitandlatchingontoit.InEastlondonthere’ssomuchgoodcoffeeasopposedtowestlondonandusuallyitsKiwi’sandAussiesbehindthewheel.TypicallyIdonotorderfromaplacethatdoesnotchasethegrindorsurfthegrindasisknowndownunder.Muchoftheflavourofextractioniscontrolledbythegrindwhichchangesthroughouttheday.Idontcareiftheyknowalltheirratiosandmathsandevenweightheshots……Iftheydonthaveagoodfeelfortheprofileoftheshotsandcantgetthemilkrightitsallover.Thestretchingofmilkisdifferentfordifferentcoffeesbothinprocessandinmanagingit.OneofmyBarristasusedtoraptothemusicthathewasTHEMICROFOAMCONTROLLER……andreallyitwastrueafterI’dlineupsomedopeshots.Greatthingaboutcoffeeisthatthereisalwayssomethingmoretolearn.Thebadthingisonceyou’vehadgoodcoffeeconsistentlyitshardtodrinkacupofroughjoe. Reply a Ididn’trealisehowpretentioustheworldhadbecomeuntilIreadthisarticle. Reply a Ididn’trealisehowpretentioustheworldhadbecomeuntilIreadthisarticle. Reply Jonathan Greatarticle.I’mstillkindaconfusedthoughhaha.LasttimeIorderedaflatwhiteIaskedthebaristawhatitwas.Hesaidthatit’skindoflikeacappuccinobutmorecreamy.Iguesshisright,right;)?Anyway.Itwasagreatflatwhite. Reply Jonathan Greatarticle.I’mstillkindaconfusedthoughhaha.LasttimeIorderedaflatwhiteIaskedthebaristawhatitwas.Hesaidthatit’skindoflikeacappuccinobutmorecreamy.Iguesshisright,right;)?Anyway.Itwasagreatflatwhite. Reply Cormac Verygood,informativearticle.Youexplainthegoodandbadtechniquesofmakingcoffee.However,I’mnotsureyouanswerthequestionof‘whatisthedifferencebetweenalatteandflatwhite’. Forme,onepointthathasbeentouchedonbutnotexplicitlysaidisthatanimportantpartistheratioofespressotomilk.Formeaflatwhitehasamuchlowerratioofmilktoespresso.PersonallyIlikearatioof2:1or3:1foraflatwhiteand5:1upwardsforalatte.Forthisreason,Ithinkitistechnicallypossibletohaveaoneshotflatwhite(serveina3ozcup)ortohaveaflatwhiteina16ozcup(5or6shotsofespressowouldbeabitmuchformethough)solongastheratioiskept. Obviouslyalltheotheraspectsmentionedabovesuchastemperatureandtextureofthemilkgowithoutsaying. Reply Mel Gotoanyreputablecoffeeshopandnooneisspooningfoamonanything,Everythingispouredfreehand,soaflatwhite,cortado,cappuccino,andlatteallendupbeingverysimilar.Onlythesizeisthedeterminingfactor. Reply carmello Thankyou!I’mnotalone!It’ssoundstomelikepeoplearejustnowdiscoveringthewondersofacorrectlymadeespressodrink,mistakinglythinkingit’sanewphenomenonandassumingthatbadcoffeemakinghabitsaretheoldwayofdoingthings.Thisisn’tnewpeople.Thisishowgoodespressodrinksaremade.It’sjustadifferentformfactor. Reply Mel Gotoanyreputablecoffeeshopandnooneisspooningfoamonanything,Everythingispouredfreehand,soaflatwhite,cortado,cappuccino,andlatteallendupbeingverysimilar.Onlythesizeisthedeterminingfactor. Reply carmello Thankyou!I’mnotalone!It’ssoundstomelikepeoplearejustnowdiscoveringthewondersofacorrectlymadeespressodrink,mistakinglythinkingit’sanewphenomenonandassumingthatbadcoffeemakinghabitsaretheoldwayofdoingthings.Thisisn’tnewpeople.Thisishowgoodespressodrinksaremade.It’sjustadifferentformfactor. Reply simon IworkedmakingcoffeeinAustraliaandNewZealandandthewayiwastoldtomakeaflatwhitewas,thesmallerlikeeveryonehasagreedbutthemilkisn’tstretchedasfarasyouwouldwithalatte. Reply simon *thesmallersizelikeeveryonehasagreed Reply simon IworkedmakingcoffeeinAustraliaandNewZealandandthewayiwastoldtomakeaflatwhitewas,thesmallerlikeeveryonehasagreedbutthemilkisn’tstretchedasfarasyouwouldwithalatte. Reply simon *thesmallersizelikeeveryonehasagreed Reply Jae IrecentlytriedorderingaflatwhiteatahotelcafeinBakersfield,Caandthebaristagavemeanamusedlittlelookbeforesmuglytellingmeit’sjustwhatAustralianscallalatte.IwastooirritatedtoexplaintoherthedifferenceespeciallysinceIhadthefeelingevenifIexplainedittohershe’dstilljustmakemealatteanyways. Reply lynzie58 SamehereinCT,itssofrustratinglyannoying!Iendedupbeingservedagiantovermilkylatte,becausetheysaid“that’sjustawetlattethattheAustraliansputafancynameonanddecidedtochargemoremoneyfor,soheryougo.”UGH! Reply Jae IrecentlytriedorderingaflatwhiteatahotelcafeinBakersfield,Caandthebaristagavemeanamusedlittlelookbeforesmuglytellingmeit’sjustwhatAustralianscallalatte.IwastooirritatedtoexplaintoherthedifferenceespeciallysinceIhadthefeelingevenifIexplainedittohershe’dstilljustmakemealatteanyways. Reply lynzie58 SamehereinCT,itssofrustratinglyannoying!Iendedupbeingservedagiantovermilkylatte,becausetheysaid“that’sjustawetlattethattheAustraliansputafancynameonanddecidedtochargemoremoneyfor,soheryougo.”UGH! Reply J IfirstexperiencedtheflatwhitewhenIwaslivinginNewZealandafewyearsback.FranklyIspentallmytimetrying(andfailing)tofindanhonestcappuccino.EverybaristainNewZealandseemsobsessedwiththequalityofthemilk,totheextentthatthecoffeecomesoffasanafterthought.Everyflatwhiteendsuptastingessentiallythesameasthecoffeeisneverallowedtobeseparatefromthemilk.Itwasastepupfromthenear-universalinstantcoffeeeveryonekeepsinajarnexttotheirsugarandtea,butidoubtthecoffeewilleverbegroundbreakingaslongasthecultureismilk-obsessed. Reply J IfirstexperiencedtheflatwhitewhenIwaslivinginNewZealandafewyearsback.FranklyIspentallmytimetrying(andfailing)tofindanhonestcappuccino.EverybaristainNewZealandseemsobsessedwiththequalityofthemilk,totheextentthatthecoffeecomesoffasanafterthought.Everyflatwhiteendsuptastingessentiallythesameasthecoffeeisneverallowedtobeseparatefromthemilk.Itwasastepupfromthenear-universalinstantcoffeeeveryonekeepsinajarnexttotheirsugarandtea,butidoubtthecoffeewilleverbegroundbreakingaslongasthecultureismilk-obsessed. Reply Darren It’salljusttooconfusing.Idisagreewiththisarticletotally.Itseemstoimplythataflatwhitehassmoothcreamymilkandacappuccinohas‘stiff’foam!?!Bothdrinkshave,ifwellmade,smoothandsilkymilk.Acappuccinoisjustlightertexturedasit’smoreaerated.Providedthemilkisstretchedbeforeitgetsabove100fandthenspunitwillbeshiny.FormeanyMilkyespressobeverageshouldhavecareandattentiongivenit.Thiswillresultinasmoothdrink.Inevitablyifacappuccinositsaroundthefoamwillstiffen.Butsowillthatofaflatwhiteoralatte-there’sjustlessofitsoitsnotasobvious.Shouldbeamootpointhoweverastobeenjoyedattheirbesttheyshouldbothbeconsumedreasonablyquickly. Idon’tthinkthere’salawanywherethatstatesalattehasmorefroththanaflatwhiteandIdontthinkthatwouldeverconsistentlybethecase-ergoacarefullymadeflatwhiteandacarefullymadelattearethesamealbeittraditionseemstobeoneis6ozandtheother8oz.Flatwhitesarespokenaboutasthoughthere’ssomemysticalsecret.Nope;)asformilktempabsolutelyshouldn’tbetoohotbutI’dsay54cassuggestedwouldbethelowsideofacceptableand68-70ctheabsolutemaxtoretainsweetness.Checkoutprufrocksmenu-coffeewmilk4,6or8ozperfectlyshiny,silkyandsmooth.Tellsyouwhatmultiplewbc’sthinkofthewholedebate;) Reply Darren It’salljusttooconfusing.Idisagreewiththisarticletotally.Itseemstoimplythataflatwhitehassmoothcreamymilkandacappuccinohas‘stiff’foam!?!Bothdrinkshave,ifwellmade,smoothandsilkymilk.Acappuccinoisjustlightertexturedasit’smoreaerated.Providedthemilkisstretchedbeforeitgetsabove100fandthenspunitwillbeshiny.FormeanyMilkyespressobeverageshouldhavecareandattentiongivenit.Thiswillresultinasmoothdrink.Inevitablyifacappuccinositsaroundthefoamwillstiffen.Butsowillthatofaflatwhiteoralatte-there’sjustlessofitsoitsnotasobvious.Shouldbeamootpointhoweverastobeenjoyedattheirbesttheyshouldbothbeconsumedreasonablyquickly. Idon’tthinkthere’salawanywherethatstatesalattehasmorefroththanaflatwhiteandIdontthinkthatwouldeverconsistentlybethecase-ergoacarefullymadeflatwhiteandacarefullymadelattearethesamealbeittraditionseemstobeoneis6ozandtheother8oz.Flatwhitesarespokenaboutasthoughthere’ssomemysticalsecret.Nope;)asformilktempabsolutelyshouldn’tbetoohotbutI’dsay54cassuggestedwouldbethelowsideofacceptableand68-70ctheabsolutemaxtoretainsweetness.Checkoutprufrocksmenu-coffeewmilk4,6or8ozperfectlyshiny,silkyandsmooth.Tellsyouwhatmultiplewbc’sthinkofthewholedebate;) Reply Václav Everyoneseemstobeprettydeepintoflatwhite/lattediscussionthesedays.IhavetoreviewCzechcoffeesceneandaskbaristaswhatknowledgeourcustomersandbatistashaveinthetimewhencoffeecultureisimprovingliveinfrontofyoureyeseveryday. Reply Roger Ikeepgettingservedalattéinatallglasswhichisreallyannoying,itlookslikeI’mdrinkingamilkshake,quicklycoolstothetemperatureofamilkshake,andisverybadlybalancedinthehand.I’mnowaconvertedflatwhiteman. Reply SteveP WhatisleftunsaidiswhytheFlatWhiteexistsinthefirstplace.Unliketheclassicespressodrinks–latte,cappuccino,macchiato-theFlatWhiteisarecentinvention. I’venothingagainstit,butforthemostpart,it’saconvenientreplacementfortheothermilkydrinks,easierforabaristatomakeandallowsforthatof-so-important“latteart”tobedisplayed.Forthemostpart,thebigchains-*$,Costa,Nero–canmakeagoodcoffee,buttheyliketomakeittheirway,notyourway.Soyouwilloftengetacappuccinothat’sactuallyalatte(Pretand*$)oracappuccinothat’saFlatWhitesotheycanmakeaprettypictureontop(notreallypossiblewithpropercappuccinofoam). NoonewascryingoutfortheFlatWhite.It’sreallyjustawaytosimplifythe“espressoandmilk”drinkandallowfornicelattearttobeshownoff. Reply SteveP WhatisleftunsaidiswhytheFlatWhiteexistsinthefirstplace.Unliketheclassicespressodrinks–latte,cappuccino,macchiato-theFlatWhiteisarecentinvention. I’venothingagainstit,butforthemostpart,it’saconvenientreplacementfortheothermilkydrinks,easierforabaristatomakeandallowsforthatof-so-important“latteart”tobedisplayed.Forthemostpart,thebigchains-*$,Costa,Nero–canmakeagoodcoffee,buttheyliketomakeittheirway,notyourway.Soyouwilloftengetacappuccinothat’sactuallyalatte(Pretand*$)oracappuccinothat’saFlatWhitesotheycanmakeaprettypictureontop(notreallypossiblewithpropercappuccinofoam). NoonewascryingoutfortheFlatWhite.It’sreallyjustawaytosimplifythe“espressoandmilk”drinkandallowfornicelattearttobeshownoff. Reply VonSlam NextupshouldbetheLongBlackvsAmericanodebate. MostindependentcafesinLondonstillgetthiswrong. Theorderinwhichalongblackismade(waterfirst,espressosecond)isimportant—reversingthestepswilldestroythecremafromtheespressoshotandmakeanAmericano. Reply VonSlam NextupshouldbetheLongBlackvsAmericanodebate. MostindependentcafesinLondonstillgetthiswrong. Theorderinwhichalongblackismade(waterfirst,espressosecond)isimportant—reversingthestepswilldestroythecremafromtheespressoshotandmakeanAmericano. Reply Willi Youwritethatacappuccinohasstiff,bubblymilkfrothontop.IbelievethatistheAmericanversion,whichhasthesamekindoffrothasaLatteMacchiato.Anoriginalcappuccinoshouldnothaveheatedmilkandseparatestiffmilkfroth,butonlyasemi-fluidfluffymilkfoammixedwiththeespresso.Ifyoudoitthiswayithasagreat,consistenttexture,andaverybrownsurface(hencethename).TheGermanWikipediabacksthistheory,whiletheEnglishdoesnot. Ilikecoffee,butI’mneitherabaristanoranexpert.ResearchingcoffeeonthewebIhavelearnedthefollowingthings: 1)mostcoffee“afficinados”onthewebarejustsmugnarcissistsfullof…usedcoffeeground.Particularlythosewhojuststartedacareerasabarista.Notmeantpersonallyandnotdirectedatthisblog;thisarticleiswrittenpositivelypragmaticandcasual.Ilikethat! 2)Itdoesn’tmatterwhatanyonesaysanyway,becausetheofficialdefinitionsdifferfromcountrytocountry(inGermanyatraditionalcaffèlatte(“Milchkaffee”)hasdripcoffeebecausewehavenoideaofgoodcoffeewhatsoever);andintheendeveneverycoffeeshopdoeswhateveritwants. Iusuallyorderacappuccino,andI’malwayswonderingwhatIwillget.Oftentimesithasatinyalibiportionoffoamonit,whilethecafèlattelookslikewhatIwanted;onceIgotacoffeewithwhipcreamonit–notkidding!BythewayI’veneverseena“FlatWhite”andIwouldn’tevenknowwhatit’scalledinmycountry.Wikipediasaysit’sanAustralianhybrid.Okaythen… Bytheway,yousaythatthecremaiscaramelizedcoffee.Usuallycremaisdefinedastheextractedoilsofthecoffee.WhenIlookupespressoincaloriedatabases,theyallsaythatitcontainsalittleamountoffat,butbasicallynocarbohydratesatall.Therefore,coffeebeanswouldbesimilartococoabeanswhichalsocontainfat,butbasicallynocarbohydrates.Furtheremore,caramelisonlycreatedattemperaturesof135°Candup,whichseemsawfullyhighforcoffee.Ibelievecoffeeispreparedataround80°Corsomethinglikethat?SoIthinkthecremaiscreatedbypressingtheoiloutofthecoffeegrindathighpressure(vegetableoilsarecreatedsimilarlyafaik).Youseemtoknowalotaboutthisstuff,soI’mwonderingwhetherthere’sinfactmoretocremathanjusttastyoils! Reply Shaun So…I’mgoingtoignoreyourusageoftheword“bubbles”inallofthis.Thereshouldn’tbebubblesanywhereinyourfoam.Soundstomeyourflatwhiteisatraditionalcappuccino,approx8ouncestotal,preferablywithtwoshotsofespresso,pouredbeforethefoamsetsupbutnotatitswettest. Reply Tess Itriedtheflatwhitecoffeeforthefirsttime…butbeforeIorderit,Iaskedthebaristawhat’sonitandshesaidawholemilknoanysweetener..kindalikeacoffeelattetaste…hmmm…itwasgoodbutIenduprushinghomestraighttothewashroomcozmystomachdidn’tapproveit!Mustbethemilk! Reply Tess Itriedtheflatwhitecoffeeforthefirsttime…butbeforeIorderit,Iaskedthebaristawhat’sonitandshesaidawholemilknoanysweetener..kindalikeacoffeelattetaste…hmmm…itwasgoodbutIenduprushinghomestraighttothewashroomcozmystomachdidn’tapproveit!Mustbethemilk! Reply W Thedistinctionsaresosmallbetweenthelatteandflatwhite,Idon’tthinkthearticlemadeitanyclearerforme. Reply Cathi Wonderfulpost…IwaslookinguphowtomakeaFlatWhiteathome….IwasjustintroducedtotheFlatWhitewhilevacationinginAUandNZinJanuary2015.Sobeautiful.NowthatIambackinthestatesandwishingtomakethisathomebecausemyhusbandisnowsodisappointedinhismorning“coffee”andIamlongingformyfoldedfoaminthoselovelycups!Whattodo?Goingtoacoffeeshopisnotanoptionwherewelive.Suggestiononhomemachines? Reply lynzie58 IorderedmyAscasoDreamonlineandloveit.Igotitonebayfromasellerwhobarelyuseditforaverygoodprice. Reply Cathi Wonderfulpost…IwaslookinguphowtomakeaFlatWhiteathome….IwasjustintroducedtotheFlatWhitewhilevacationinginAUandNZinJanuary2015.Sobeautiful.NowthatIambackinthestatesandwishingtomakethisathomebecausemyhusbandisnowsodisappointedinhismorning“coffee”andIamlongingformyfoldedfoaminthoselovelycups!Whattodo?Goingtoacoffeeshopisnotanoptionwherewelive.Suggestiononhomemachines? Reply lynzie58 IorderedmyAscasoDreamonlineandloveit.Igotitonebayfromasellerwhobarelyuseditforaverygoodprice. Reply ThemboElly ThemboElly Thisanswerreadstobethebestonmysideofunderstanding.AmabaristainUgandabutalwaysflatwouldmeannotstrongsothisflatwhitehasmoremilktoregulateespressotoughness. Reply George I’vehadextensiveexperienceasabaristainboththeUKandCanadaandI’vealwaysfoundtheflatwhitetobeasocialmisnomer. Ontheonehad,thereareagreatmanybaristasoutsideofAustralasiathatdon’tknowhowtomakeitproperlybut,consideringinanyonecityyouwillfindvariationinthepreparationandpresentationofmostespressodrinks,thefacttherearedifferencesintheflatwhitestylebetweencountriesiseasytounderstand. I’dsaythemainproblemistwo-fold.Firstly,customersneverknowwhattheywant–atleastinsomuchashowtheiruseofatermcorrespondstotheculturalortechnicaldefinitionofadrink.Theflatwhiteisoftenorderedlarge,orwithalmondmilk.It’ssaidtobetoostrongwhenit’sadoubleinan8ozbutsomehowperfectwhenmadeina6oz.It’sinsisteduponthatitmustbearistrettoshot.Thereareanynumberofbastardisationsofthesamedrinkwhichcontributetoitbeingindecipherableandutterlyannoyingtoengagewithasabarista. Myownfeeling,andmysecondandfinalissue,isthatthinkingofalatteasjusta“milkycoffee”isarelativelylameandreductionistviewpoint.Thatbeautifulvelvetymicro-foamthatisthestapleoftheflatwhiteisalsothemakingsofawonderfullatte.Justcombiningdecentmilkandespressoforalatteandcallingitacceptableisn’treallyokay.Thatmicro-foamshouldbethepredominantexperienceforthelatterdrinkertoo.Couplethatwiththedesireatnicerplacestoprovideartinthecremaand–ifyou’reanygood–you’reessentiallytalkingaboutthesamecompositionasaflatwhite,albeitonethatvariesinsize. Soyeah.Customersarewrongalot,baristasshouldbebetter,andbloggerscanbealittletooself-assured. Reply Ben Herehere! Flatwhitehasbeenadoptedbythosewhowanttofeel‘intheknow’,butlattesandcappsshouldalsobegiventhesametreatmentintermsofattentiontomilkandEspressoprep. Reply George I’vehadextensiveexperienceasabaristainboththeUKandCanadaandI’vealwaysfoundtheflatwhitetobeasocialmisnomer. Ontheonehad,thereareagreatmanybaristasoutsideofAustralasiathatdon’tknowhowtomakeitproperlybut,consideringinanyonecityyouwillfindvariationinthepreparationandpresentationofmostespressodrinks,thefacttherearedifferencesintheflatwhitestylebetweencountriesiseasytounderstand. I’dsaythemainproblemistwo-fold.Firstly,customersneverknowwhattheywant–atleastinsomuchashowtheiruseofatermcorrespondstotheculturalortechnicaldefinitionofadrink.Theflatwhiteisoftenorderedlarge,orwithalmondmilk.It’ssaidtobetoostrongwhenit’sadoubleinan8ozbutsomehowperfectwhenmadeina6oz.It’sinsisteduponthatitmustbearistrettoshot.Thereareanynumberofbastardisationsofthesamedrinkwhichcontributetoitbeingindecipherableandutterlyannoyingtoengagewithasabarista. Myownfeeling,andmysecondandfinalissue,isthatthinkingofalatteasjusta“milkycoffee”isarelativelylameandreductionistviewpoint.Thatbeautifulvelvetymicro-foamthatisthestapleoftheflatwhiteisalsothemakingsofawonderfullatte.Justcombiningdecentmilkandespressoforalatteandcallingitacceptableisn’treallyokay.Thatmicro-foamshouldbethepredominantexperienceforthelatterdrinkertoo.Couplethatwiththedesireatnicerplacestoprovideartinthecremaand–ifyou’reanygood–you’reessentiallytalkingaboutthesamecompositionasaflatwhite,albeitonethatvariesinsize. Soyeah.Customersarewrongalot,baristasshouldbebetter,andbloggerscanbealittletooself-assured. Reply Ben Herehere! Flatwhitehasbeenadoptedbythosewhowanttofeel‘intheknow’,butlattesandcappsshouldalsobegiventhesametreatmentintermsofattentiontomilkandEspressoprep. Reply ross Youpeopleneedtogetalife!Thisbusinessoftryingtoturncoffeemakingintoanadvancedscienceorartform–absolutegarbage Reply JimAllen YoutookthetroubletopostonablogcalledCoffeeHunter,dissingalmosteveryoneelsewhohasposted.Whatwereyouexpecting? Haveyouactuallytriedanyofthesedrinks?Andhaveyoutriedmakingthem? Thereisadifference,butifyouhavenopalateorappreciationofthesethingsthenyouprobablyoughttogetbacktoyourfishfingersandchipsandliquiddirt–orNescaféasIbelieveitiscalled… Reply ross Youpeopleneedtogetalife!Thisbusinessoftryingtoturncoffeemakingintoanadvancedscienceorartform–absolutegarbage Reply JimAllen YoutookthetroubletopostonablogcalledCoffeeHunter,dissingalmosteveryoneelsewhohasposted.Whatwereyouexpecting? Haveyouactuallytriedanyofthesedrinks?Andhaveyoutriedmakingthem? Thereisadifference,butifyouhavenopalateorappreciationofthesethingsthenyouprobablyoughttogetbacktoyourfishfingersandchipsandliquiddirt–orNescaféasIbelieveitiscalled… Reply adam Beenabaristaforsevenyears.Theflatwhitecrazeisafunnydevelopment.Apartfromsoundingmorelikeasharkthanacupofcoffeeitis,howeveryouwannalookatit,verysimilartoasmalllatteoracompetitioncappuccino.Ifyou’reseriousaboutcoffeeyoumakeadistinctionbetweenmilkbaseddrinksusingespressoanddrinks,usuallyconsumedblack,producedusingvariousbrewmethods.That’sitreally,itsjustsemanticsandmarketing.Youshouldworryaboutwhat’sinthehopper. Reply adam Beenabaristaforsevenyears.Theflatwhitecrazeisafunnydevelopment.Apartfromsoundingmorelikeasharkthanacupofcoffeeitis,howeveryouwannalookatit,verysimilartoasmalllatteoracompetitioncappuccino.Ifyou’reseriousaboutcoffeeyoumakeadistinctionbetweenmilkbaseddrinksusingespressoanddrinks,usuallyconsumedblack,producedusingvariousbrewmethods.That’sitreally,itsjustsemanticsandmarketing.Youshouldworryaboutwhat’sinthehopper. Reply Erin That’sexactlywhatiwaslookingfor! AlwaysquestionaboutthedifferencebetweenF/Wandlatte. Thankfortheinformation. Ireaallyneedaflatwhiteatthemoment,butit’skindofnewheretoo. SoIhaven’thadF/WsinceFeb. Reply Erin That’sexactlywhatiwaslookingfor! AlwaysquestionaboutthedifferencebetweenF/Wandlatte. Thankfortheinformation. Ireaallyneedaflatwhiteatthemoment,butit’skindofnewheretoo. SoIhaven’thadF/WsinceFeb. Reply GwenQ Iamneitherabaristanoracoffeeconnoisseur.HoweverIdolikemycoffee.Ihaven’thadadecentcupofflatwhitesinceIleftAustralia.Thisevening,Ihadagiantcupofmilktoppedwithathicklayerofcreamdisguisedasaflatwhite.ThiswasataStarbucksinSingapore.Iamsofrustratedthatitspromptedmetowritethis.Thanksfortheinformation Reply GwenQ Iamneitherabaristanoracoffeeconnoisseur.HoweverIdolikemycoffee.Ihaven’thadadecentcupofflatwhitesinceIleftAustralia.Thisevening,Ihadagiantcupofmilktoppedwithathicklayerofcreamdisguisedasaflatwhite.ThiswasataStarbucksinSingapore.Iamsofrustratedthatitspromptedmetowritethis.Thanksfortheinformation Reply Mark IlovecoffeeandIhavetriedallshopsaroundmyareabutthereisonebaristaironicallyworkingforaMcDonaldscaféinmyareawhoisamazing.ShemakesthebestCappuccinoandMochaccinoIhaveevertried.Ifyoujustwatchherdoingthethingyouknowsheispassionateaboutitandsheknowswhatsheisdoing.ItisjustamatteroftimeandsomelocalcoffeeshopyouhireherIamsure. Reply Mark IlovecoffeeandIhavetriedallshopsaroundmyareabutthereisonebaristaironicallyworkingforaMcDonaldscaféinmyareawhoisamazing.ShemakesthebestCappuccinoandMochaccinoIhaveevertried.Ifyoujustwatchherdoingthethingyouknowsheispassionateaboutitandsheknowswhatsheisdoing.ItisjustamatteroftimeandsomelocalcoffeeshopyouhireherIamsure. Reply JonathanKeller IorderedaflatwhiteonawhimthefirsttimeIorderedcoffeeonmytriptoLondon.ThatendedupbeingtheonlycoffeedrinkIhadtheentiretimeIwastherebecauseitwassogood.NowIambackinthestatesandnooneknowswhatthehellaflatwhiteis.IjustneedtofindabaristathathasenoughtimetoreadthisonmyphoneafterIorderaflatwhite. Reply Jax WhenwevisitedtheUS,everyonewalksaroundwiththisgianttake-awaycupsofwaterycoffee.Needlesstosay,Iabstained.Wedidn’tfindgoodcoffeeanywhereintheareaswevisitedatthattime. Reply JonathanKeller IorderedaflatwhiteonawhimthefirsttimeIorderedcoffeeonmytriptoLondon.ThatendedupbeingtheonlycoffeedrinkIhadtheentiretimeIwastherebecauseitwassogood.NowIambackinthestatesandnooneknowswhatthehellaflatwhiteis.IjustneedtofindabaristathathasenoughtimetoreadthisonmyphoneafterIorderaflatwhite. Reply Jax WhenwevisitedtheUS,everyonewalksaroundwiththisgianttake-awaycupsofwaterycoffee.Needlesstosay,Iabstained.Wedidn’tfindgoodcoffeeanywhereintheareaswevisitedatthattime. Reply Lauren Thankyousomuchforabeautifullywrittenandeasytounderstandexplanation!JustgotbackfromIrelandandLondonwhereespressowasoftentimestheonlycoffeeavailableandIorderedaflatwhiteinsteadofalatte,justtoseewhatitwas.AndIlikeditbetter!Itseemedsmoother–butIcouldn’tfigureoutwhy.AndnowIknow. Thankyousomuch! Reply Lauren Thankyousomuchforabeautifullywrittenandeasytounderstandexplanation!JustgotbackfromIrelandandLondonwhereespressowasoftentimestheonlycoffeeavailableandIorderedaflatwhiteinsteadofalatte,justtoseewhatitwas.AndIlikeditbetter!Itseemedsmoother–butIcouldn’tfigureoutwhy.AndnowIknow. Thankyousomuch! Reply sapper.pronto couldsomebodypleasetellmewhymylattecoffeeskeepcurdling.andpleasetellmethecorrectseriesofpouringintoalargelatteglass. SHOULDITBE1:poursteamedmilkinfirst 2:addflavouredsyrup(ifrequired) 3:addexpressocoffee PleaseHELP Reply sapper.pronto couldsomebodypleasetellmewhymylattecoffeeskeepcurdling.andpleasetellmethecorrectseriesofpouringintoalargelatteglass. SHOULDITBE1:poursteamedmilkinfirst 2:addflavouredsyrup(ifrequired) 3:addexpressocoffee PleaseHELP Reply Richard Spooningmilk?Oh,fortheloveofgod.–Juststretch,&texturethemilkforadifferentamountoftimedependingonwhetheryouwantaCappu,LatorFla. Freepoureverything. Ifinditfarmoreimportanttoplungethemilkunderthecremaswiftlyyetgentlysoasnottodisturbthecremaasyoublendthemilkthroughout,beforefinishingwithyourdesiredtouch,palm,heart,tulip,etc. Reply Richard Spooningmilk?Oh,fortheloveofgod.–Juststretch,&texturethemilkforadifferentamountoftimedependingonwhetheryouwantaCappu,LatorFla. Freepoureverything. Ifinditfarmoreimportanttoplungethemilkunderthecremaswiftlyyetgentlysoasnottodisturbthecremaasyoublendthemilkthroughout,beforefinishingwithyourdesiredtouch,palm,heart,tulip,etc. Reply Giuseppe Anglo-saxonstalkingaboutcoffeeand“latteart”…yeah! I’mamazedbyyournaiveignoranceaboutthistopicandsurprised Reply Giuseppe Anglo-saxonstalkingaboutcoffeeand“latteart”…yeah! I’mamazedbyyournaiveignoranceaboutthistopicandsurprised Reply Jax inallthesecomments,theartformandloveofcoffeeisacommonthread.Iloveit!!HereinSouthAfricaitisfinallycatchingon!! Reply Jax inallthesecomments,theartformandloveofcoffeeisacommonthread.Iloveit!!HereinSouthAfricaitisfinallycatchingon!! Reply JimAllen SinceIfirsthadadecentflatwhiteinCosta,ithasbeenmycoffeeofchoiceeversince.Theydoaprettygoodjobinmyexperience–notasgoodasgreatindependentcoffeeshops,butbetterthanmost,andthebestoftheUKchainsIMO. IboughtaGaggiaNewBabybutneededtocustomiseitwithaRanciliosteamwand,andaconicalburrgrinderjusttomaketheseathomeproperly.Ittookmeweeksoftrialanderrortogetitright.Mycoffeeisn’tgoingtowinawards,butit’salotbetterthanmostchains. Forme,it’stheratiobetweenthemilkandcoffee(mediumsizedcup,doubleshot),andvelvetytextureofthemicrofoamthatmakethissodelicious.Ialwaysusefreshly-roastedcoffeeorderedovertheinternet.AflatWhitemadewithfreshlygroundcoffeeroastedonlythedaybeforeismydailytreat. Reply Nerida I’mAustralian.ifoundthisinterestingbecauseIneverreallyunderstoodwhatalattewas.IusuallyorderaflatwhiteandallIwantismilkinmycoffeethanksandnowhitemustachetodabawayafterwards. Ithinkwemakegreatcoffeeherewhateveryourpreference. Reply Nerida I’mAustralian.ifoundthisinterestingbecauseIneverreallyunderstoodwhatalattewas.IusuallyorderaflatwhiteandallIwantismilkinmycoffeethanksandnowhitemustachetodabawayafterwards. Ithinkwemakegreatcoffeeherewhateveryourpreference. Reply Fred thebaristathinks:IwillmakeyourcoffeeandIdon’tcareifit’sCapplatteorflatwhite!!!!IlgonnapouritwithSwantoday!!!! Reply Fred thebaristathinks:IwillmakeyourcoffeeandIdon’tcareifit’sCapplatteorflatwhite!!!!IlgonnapouritwithSwantoday!!!! Reply Sue Allveryconfusing!Somanydifferentopinions. Iorderadoubleespressoandashotofsteamedwholemilkinasmallcup.Thecupisprobably6or7ounces. Isthisaflatwhite? Reply Sue Allveryconfusing!Somanydifferentopinions. Iorderadoubleespressoandashotofsteamedwholemilkinasmallcup.Thecupisprobably6or7ounces. Isthisaflatwhite? Reply BarbaraStrotten Veryinterestingreadingcommentsonflatwhitev’slatte’Iam70nextyear,Iwasbroughtupintheukwithamotherthatlovedacupofcoffeemadewithmilkandenjoyedgoingtoacoffeeshopforhertreat,allsheaskedforwasawhitecoffeeandasIgrewupstartedtoenjoysame,wenevereverhadaproblemgettingadecentcupormugmadewithmilkforthatcreamytouch,especiallyitaliancoffeeshopstheywerethebest,cametoaustraliaearly70’salwayslovedgoingtocoffeeshopsformycreamyflatwhitecoffeeneveranybitternessorburnttasteortoostrong,anditneverhadfroth,ifyouwantedfrothyouorderedcappucino,overthelastfewyearssincebaristasInowhavestrugglesgettingadecentcupofcoffee,everycoffeethesedayshasfroth,Ihateit.makesmefeelsick,Itisalsotoostrongandsometimesbitterinmanyplaces,sonowhavetoaskforhalfstrengthsoofcoursesometimesdependingonthebrandtheyareusingcanbeasweakasdishwaterIhavetriedflatwhitesandlattestheyarethesametome,dependingwhosemakingit.GoodandImeangoodbaristasmakelovelyflatwhiteswithnofroth,whenIstarteddrinkinglattestheirwasnofroth,Ilikeamugsizehubbylikesacup,Ihatelattesforthefacttheycomeinglasseswithnohandles,itstoohottohold.Weliterallybegfornofrothcantheymakeawhitecoffeewithoutfrothsuretheysayandwhatdoyouget–froth!justtodayalthoughweaskedforcoffeewithnofrothorwewouldspoonitinthesaucerguesswhattheiris1/2″offrothsowesentitbackguesswhatwegetanothercupwithfrothsowhatdowedospoonitoutintothesaucerthenguesswhat,youhavelost1/2yourcoffee.Wetoldthemwewouldn’tbeback,Ihavetravelledtheworld,neverhadabadcoffeeinAmerica,notsurewhatitsliketherenow,butIhatestarbucks,toostrongandbitter.IamcomingtothestagewhereIamconsideringjusthavingmyflatwhitecoffeeathomeandIamnowdrinkingmorewaterwhenIamout. Reply Francois Acappuccinowithbigbubblesisjustnotacceptable–Notsurewhereyoucomefrombutthatwouldbeindicativeofa“person”makingacappuccino,notaworthyBarista! Reply Dani I’manexperiencedNZbaristaandthere’sageneralcorrectwaytomakeaflatwhite,butthere’snorealrulebookonit.Generallyaflatwhiteshouldhavearound3mmorlessofthemicrofoam–maybenotnecessarilyenoughtodofancylatteart,butyoushouldbeabletostillpresentitnicelywithaheart!Idon’tknowwhereallthisstuffabout‘temperature’andusingaristrettoshotforaflatwhitehascomefromasIhavenevermetanotherbaristawhohasmadeaflatwhiteintheseways.Thatjustseemslikesomethingthat’sbeenpasseddownthelinefrombaristatobarista.Itmakessensethenthatbecauseofthis,everycafeandeverybaristawillhaveauniquewayofdoingaflatwhite. Ifit’sfoamyouspecificallydon’tlike,pleasedoallofusbaristasafavourandsaynofoamatall!Withtheprocessthemilkgoesthroughwhenheating,youcan’theatwithoutputtingairinotherwiseitscreechesandmakesthemostungodlysoundyou’veeverheard.Weneedtoletthemilksitforaminutetoletthelayerssettlesowecanholdthemilkbacktogiveyouthat0mmoffroththatyouhaverequested😉 Flatwhitesabsolutelycanbemadetoalarge.WhileIunderstandthatflatwhitesaregenerallymeanttobeshorterandstronger,ifacustomerrequestsalarge,itismostdefinitelypossibletoscaleitupwithoutbeinganass.Ithinkthiswhere‘howtomakeaflatwhite’and‘snobbishness’maygetmixedup. Anyway–sohowtomakeaflatwhite?Doubleespresso,preferablyasmallcup,freshlysteamedwholemilkasalways(don’ttextureittoomuch–FLATwhitebecauseitisrelativelyflatmilkcomparedtoyourmilkforalatteorcappuccino),pouraslittlefrothaspossible.Placeonaplatewithateaspoon.Bam,done.There’snorocketsciencebehindit–perhapsafewtoomanybaristasaretakingtheflatwhiteaweebitseriously. Reply Dani I’manexperiencedNZbaristaandthere’sageneralcorrectwaytomakeaflatwhite,butthere’snorealrulebookonit.Generallyaflatwhiteshouldhavearound3mmorlessofthemicrofoam–maybenotnecessarilyenoughtodofancylatteart,butyoushouldbeabletostillpresentitnicelywithaheart!Idon’tknowwhereallthisstuffabout‘temperature’andusingaristrettoshotforaflatwhitehascomefromasIhavenevermetanotherbaristawhohasmadeaflatwhiteintheseways.Thatjustseemslikesomethingthat’sbeenpasseddownthelinefrombaristatobarista.Itmakessensethenthatbecauseofthis,everycafeandeverybaristawillhaveauniquewayofdoingaflatwhite. Ifit’sfoamyouspecificallydon’tlike,pleasedoallofusbaristasafavourandsaynofoamatall!Withtheprocessthemilkgoesthroughwhenheating,youcan’theatwithoutputtingairinotherwiseitscreechesandmakesthemostungodlysoundyou’veeverheard.Weneedtoletthemilksitforaminutetoletthelayerssettlesowecanholdthemilkbacktogiveyouthat0mmoffroththatyouhaverequested😉 Flatwhitesabsolutelycanbemadetoalarge.WhileIunderstandthatflatwhitesaregenerallymeanttobeshorterandstronger,ifacustomerrequestsalarge,itismostdefinitelypossibletoscaleitupwithoutbeinganass.Ithinkthiswhere‘howtomakeaflatwhite’and‘snobbishness’maygetmixedup. Anyway–sohowtomakeaflatwhite?Doubleespresso,preferablyasmallcup,freshlysteamedwholemilkasalways(don’ttextureittoomuch–FLATwhitebecauseitisrelativelyflatmilkcomparedtoyourmilkforalatteorcappuccino),pouraslittlefrothaspossible.Placeonaplatewithateaspoon.Bam,done.There’snorocketsciencebehindit–perhapsafewtoomanybaristasaretakingtheflatwhiteaweebitseriously. Reply Yvonne Iamacoffeeshopowner.Weserveorganicespressoandareproudofourmicro-foam. BeforeIwrotemyvocabularytestforbaristas,Istudiedseveraldifferentpublishedespressotermsandvocabularyarticles. YourarticleheremakesmerealizethatIneedto‘declare’whataflatwhiteisatLibby’sLattes. *sigh* FlatWhiteisn’tevenonmyvocabularylist!(ristrettoisinthere,andourmicro-foamwitha‘freepour’isexcellent) NowthatStarbucksisusingtheterm“FlatWhite”alot,wewillneedtodecidetomakeitliketheydo,ornot…….becausepeoplewillbeaskingforit. Reply Yvonne Iamacoffeeshopowner.Weserveorganicespressoandareproudofourmicro-foam. BeforeIwrotemyvocabularytestforbaristas,Istudiedseveraldifferentpublishedespressotermsandvocabularyarticles. YourarticleheremakesmerealizethatIneedto‘declare’whataflatwhiteisatLibby’sLattes. *sigh* FlatWhiteisn’tevenonmyvocabularylist!(ristrettoisinthere,andourmicro-foamwitha‘freepour’isexcellent) NowthatStarbucksisusingtheterm“FlatWhite”alot,wewillneedtodecidetomakeitliketheydo,ornot…….becausepeoplewillbeaskingforit. Reply Paul HavingworkedasabaristainAustralia,for20years,wemakecoffeetothelikesanddemandsofthecustomer.Ifacustomerwantsafrothyflatwhitewhichisactuallyalatteweservethemaflatwhitewithfrothwithasmuchoraslittlecoffeetotheirindividualtasteinuptofourdifferentsizedcupsandwiththeoptiontofullyfillthecuporonlyhalffull.Oriftheyaskforalattewithnofroth,weservethemaflatwhite. Youwon’tfindanylatteartonmyflatwhites.Whatyoushouldseeisthecrema,thecolourofthesameintensityasyouwouldseeontheshotofespressoontopaverythinlayerofmicro-foaminanysizecupfrom8ozto20oz.Mylatteartisreservedforlatteswhichismadeofblendingthecoffeewithtexturizedfrothymilkresultinginadefinedlayerofmicro-foamabout1cmindepth. Theskillofagoodbaristaistointerpretwhatthecustomerisaskingforintheircoffeeandtoproduceacoffeebeveragetotheindividualpreferencesofthecustomerwhomayormaynotbeaneducatedcoffeedrinker.Itdoesn’tmatterwhattheycallitaslongasittastesgood.AllIwanttoseeisemptycups.IfIcollectcupsthatstillcontainliquid,IfeelIhavenotdonegoodenough. Reply Paul HavingworkedasabaristainAustralia,for20years,wemakecoffeetothelikesanddemandsofthecustomer.Ifacustomerwantsafrothyflatwhitewhichisactuallyalatteweservethemaflatwhitewithfrothwithasmuchoraslittlecoffeetotheirindividualtasteinuptofourdifferentsizedcupsandwiththeoptiontofullyfillthecuporonlyhalffull.Oriftheyaskforalattewithnofroth,weservethemaflatwhite. Youwon’tfindanylatteartonmyflatwhites.Whatyoushouldseeisthecrema,thecolourofthesameintensityasyouwouldseeontheshotofespressoontopaverythinlayerofmicro-foaminanysizecupfrom8ozto20oz.Mylatteartisreservedforlatteswhichismadeofblendingthecoffeewithtexturizedfrothymilkresultinginadefinedlayerofmicro-foamabout1cmindepth. Theskillofagoodbaristaistointerpretwhatthecustomerisaskingforintheircoffeeandtoproduceacoffeebeveragetotheindividualpreferencesofthecustomerwhomayormaynotbeaneducatedcoffeedrinker.Itdoesn’tmatterwhattheycallitaslongasittastesgood.AllIwanttoseeisemptycups.IfIcollectcupsthatstillcontainliquid,IfeelIhavenotdonegoodenough. Reply Laura OkI’mthinkinglatteisalotofmilkincoffee,flatwhiteiswetcappuccino?Cappuccinoisevenlessmilkandmorefoam. Reply Laura OkI’mthinkinglatteisalotofmilkincoffee,flatwhiteiswetcappuccino?Cappuccinoisevenlessmilkandmorefoam. Reply P.Miller Inovertwentyyears,IhaveownedfourcoffeeshopsinAustraliaandpeopleinAmericaandtheU.K.areconfusedastowhataflatwhiteisbecausetheyaregettinglattes.Aflatwhiteissimplyflat,nofrothorverylittle.Alattehasfroth.Acappuccinohasmorefroth.Italldependsonhowmuchairisaddedtothemilkduringsteaming.Ifithasmicrofoamorfrothitisnotaflatwhite. Asabarista,itismyjobtointerpretthecustomersrequestandproducethecoffeetotheirexpectations.Tellmehowyoulikeyourcoffee,andIwillmakehowyoulikeit,evena20oz.flatwhitewithasingleshotofespresso.Iwon’taskyouwhyyouliketodrinkhotmilkwithahintofcoffee.IwouldhavesomanyangrycustomersifItoldthemaflatwhitecomesinonlyonesizewithtwoshots.Iamoperatingabusiness,notabaristacompetition. Reply AndreaKeller IhavebeenaBaristafor17yearsnow.WhensomeonecomesinandordersaflatwhiteIautomaticallyhatethem.NotbecauseIcan’tmakeit,(Igetit,thereisadifferenceetc)butbecauseIknowtheyaretryingtotestme.Theyholduptheline,stretchtheirnecksoverthecounter,andloomovermetowatchwhatIamdoing.Thesearethetypesofpeoplethatwouldn’tknoweitherway.Ihaveneveroncegottenthesameversionofthe“recipe”foraflatwhitefromacustomer.WhenitbecamepopularIofcourseresearchedandlearneditrightaway.Imademyfirstoneforacustomerbeautifully,(aftertestingthemonmyself)ithadperfectmicrofoam,perfectpour,perfectratio,andperfectpresentation.Theycomplaineditwasn’tthesameastheonetheygotfromStarbucks…..Ain’tnobodygottimeforthatshit…. Reply Phil …thenpeopleaddsugarandstir! Reply Phil …thenpeopleaddsugarandstir! Reply Kris Aflatwhiteshouldbeexactlythat.Themilkshouldbeflat,notexture.Nomicrofoam.Nothing.Justwarmedmilk,basically.Retainthecremaforpresentationandyoubasicallyhavethe“whitecoffee”youhaveatyourfriendshouseexceptithascremaandthemilkisn’tpouredcold.Idon’tknowhowthisisevenadebate.Thenametellsyouexactlyhowitshouldbe.Microfoamandvelvety,silkymilkisforalatteandthatplusagooddollopofthickfoamequatestoacappucino.Fairlystandardstuff. Reply Kris Aflatwhiteshouldbeexactlythat.Themilkshouldbeflat,notexture.Nomicrofoam.Nothing.Justwarmedmilk,basically.Retainthecremaforpresentationandyoubasicallyhavethe“whitecoffee”youhaveatyourfriendshouseexceptithascremaandthemilkisn’tpouredcold.Idon’tknowhowthisisevenadebate.Thenametellsyouexactlyhowitshouldbe.Microfoamandvelvety,silkymilkisforalatteandthatplusagooddollopofthickfoamequatestoacappucino.Fairlystandardstuff. Reply Nicole Whilethearticlewashelpfulasabaristatryingtoexpandmyknowledge,Ifeltalittleattacked… Itdoesn’tsoundliketheauthoris/wasabaristasoI’dliketoseethemtrytofrothmilkcorrectly.Justanotherstuckupcustomer(readcoffeesnob)whoknowswhattheywantbutwon’taskforitinawaywecanunderstand.Imaynothaveknownwhataflatwhitewas,butifithadbeenexplainedtomeIcouldhavemadeitPERFECTLY. Sodon’tjudgeyourbaristaiftheydon’tknowwhatitis.Taketheopportunitytoteachthem,anddon’tbecondescendingaboutitlikethearticle.Don’ttrytotellthemhowtosteammilkifyou’veneverdoneitwithalineofcustomersoutthedoor.Benice. Reply Nicole Whilethearticlewashelpfulasabaristatryingtoexpandmyknowledge,Ifeltalittleattacked… Itdoesn’tsoundliketheauthoris/wasabaristasoI’dliketoseethemtrytofrothmilkcorrectly.Justanotherstuckupcustomer(readcoffeesnob)whoknowswhattheywantbutwon’taskforitinawaywecanunderstand.Imaynothaveknownwhataflatwhitewas,butifithadbeenexplainedtomeIcouldhavemadeitPERFECTLY. Sodon’tjudgeyourbaristaiftheydon’tknowwhatitis.Taketheopportunitytoteachthem,anddon’tbecondescendingaboutitlikethearticle.Don’ttrytotellthemhowtosteammilkifyou’veneverdoneitwithalineofcustomersoutthedoor.Benice. Reply ElaineGarriguesO'Neill OriginallyfromIreland,I’velivedinFranceforalmost10yearsnowandhaveprettymuchgivenupdrinkingwhitecoffeeoutsideofmyownhome.Thecoffeeindustryhasn’treallyevolvedhere(barafewhipsterjointsinParis)…youeitherdrinkespresso(uncafé),alongblackcoffee(allongé)oracafécrème(whitecoffee)–endofdiscussion!LivinginIreland10yearsagowasscarcelybetterasmostpeoplethoughtalattewoulddothejob(intheimmortalwordsofWayneCampbell,“Areyoumental??)Foryears,everytimeweorderedcoffeeasafamily,wewouldtestthewaiter’spatiencebyordering“adoubleespressoinalargecupwithhotmilkontheside”…invariablytheywouldbringatinyjugofhotmilksobythetimeyougotholdofthewaitertorequestextramilk(andbythetimethatmilkactuallyarrived),yourcoffeehadgonecold&youwereleftcursingtheStarbucks/Friends’cultureofdrinkingoutmassivecups…becauselet’sfaceit,that’swhenorderingawhitecoffeenolongerbecamepossible!Anyway,youcanimaginemyreliefwhenmysisterinformedmethat“onmyholidays”inIreland,Icannowjustordera“flatwhite”andheypresto,it’stheperfectamountofcoffeewiththeperfectamountofmilkinjustTWOWORDS!!Nowallthat’sleftformetodoisgetmybaristacert&openmyowncaféhereinMarseille!Oh,andgreatarticlebytheway🙂 Reply ElaineGarriguesO'Neill OriginallyfromIreland,I’velivedinFranceforalmost10yearsnowandhaveprettymuchgivenupdrinkingwhitecoffeeoutsideofmyownhome.Thecoffeeindustryhasn’treallyevolvedhere(barafewhipsterjointsinParis)…youeitherdrinkespresso(uncafé),alongblackcoffee(allongé)oracafécrème(whitecoffee)–endofdiscussion!LivinginIreland10yearsagowasscarcelybetterasmostpeoplethoughtalattewoulddothejob(intheimmortalwordsofWayneCampbell,“Areyoumental??)Foryears,everytimeweorderedcoffeeasafamily,wewouldtestthewaiter’spatiencebyordering“adoubleespressoinalargecupwithhotmilkontheside”…invariablytheywouldbringatinyjugofhotmilksobythetimeyougotholdofthewaitertorequestextramilk(andbythetimethatmilkactuallyarrived),yourcoffeehadgonecold&youwereleftcursingtheStarbucks/Friends’cultureofdrinkingoutmassivecups…becauselet’sfaceit,that’swhenorderingawhitecoffeenolongerbecamepossible!Anyway,youcanimaginemyreliefwhenmysisterinformedmethat“onmyholidays”inIreland,Icannowjustordera“flatwhite”andheypresto,it’stheperfectamountofcoffeewiththeperfectamountofmilkinjustTWOWORDS!!Nowallthat’sleftformetodoisgetmybaristacert&openmyowncaféhereinMarseille!Oh,andgreatarticlebytheway🙂 Reply Walter Whatabunchofnonsense!ThisisthesadheritageoftheStarbuckinventingvariationsonthingsthatalreadyexist.Lackingaprevioushistoryandtradition,theyhaveinventedandbrandedthe“warmwater”likenobodyknewaboutit..Andpeoplebeinganal..BeingitalianIamsofedupofthis.Likecallingsandwiches,panini(withoutunderstandingthemeaning,paninisisthepinnacleaspaniniisalreadyplural)andalongsequelofothernosensicalstuff!Caffeelattewegiveittokidstolearntodrinkcoffeeoradultwhentheyfeelundertheweather..Cappuccinoisamorningthingthatyouwanttocallitin15differentwaysbecauseyoupourthefoamedmilkfromleftorright…Ifthismakesmoneythengoahead Reply Walter Iforgottosaythatmanyofthesesupercoffeefanaticsthendrinkthese“supercoffees”inapapercupandtheonlythingyousmelliswarmpaper!Greatstuffforonly3.5pounds! Reply Walter Whatabunchofnonsense!ThisisthesadheritageoftheStarbuckinventingvariationsonthingsthatalreadyexist.Lackingaprevioushistoryandtradition,theyhaveinventedandbrandedthe“warmwater”likenobodyknewaboutit..Andpeoplebeinganal..BeingitalianIamsofedupofthis.Likecallingsandwiches,panini(withoutunderstandingthemeaning,paninisisthepinnacleaspaniniisalreadyplural)andalongsequelofothernosensicalstuff!Caffeelattewegiveittokidstolearntodrinkcoffeeoradultwhentheyfeelundertheweather..Cappuccinoisamorningthingthatyouwanttocallitin15differentwaysbecauseyoupourthefoamedmilkfromleftorright…Ifthismakesmoneythengoahead Reply Walter Iforgottosaythatmanyofthesesupercoffeefanaticsthendrinkthese“supercoffees”inapapercupandtheonlythingyousmelliswarmpaper!Greatstuffforonly3.5pounds! Reply Sasha StarbucksinLA–atleasteverysingleoneI’vebeenin–isdisgustinginthatthemilkisscaled,rescaled,over-scalded–resultingincappuccinothattastesnothinglikecoffee,onlyscaldedmilk.Itdoesn’tmatterhowmanyshotsofespresso,it’stheover-scaledmilkthatruinsitall. OrangeCountyStarbucksseemtoknowhowtomakethedrinksandneverover-scald.SamewiththecolddrinksI’vetried,OrangeCountybeatsthepantsoffLA.UnfortunatesinceInowliveinLA. Reply Greg AfterreadingyourarticleIstilldon’tknowthedifference.Whataboutthevolumeofmilk?Ina220mlcupIuse90mlofmilkforalattebutonly60mlforcappuccinotoallowforthefroth.Itsoundslikeaflatwhiteusesthesameamountasalatteifthereislessfoam,thenlogicallythereshouldbemoremilk.Also,itwouldhelptoknowaboutthefrothingtechnique.Thesteamnozzleishelddeeperinthemilkforalattethanforacappuccino.Wheredoyouholditforaflatwhite?Howaboutagridwithcafeaulait,flatwhite,latte,cappuccino,macchiatoandnoisetteshowingsizeandtypeofcup,amountofespresso,amountofmilk,ratiomilk/microfoam/froth,swirlingandpouringtechniques.Thatwouldbehandy!Iwouldevenputitonmykitchenwall! Reply Laura IbecameacoffeeconnoisseurwhilelivinginSeattle,WAformanyyears.AsIdevelopedmytasteforcoffeedrinks,IrealizedthatIlikedastrongcoffeedrink,butsooftenthelattesweretoomilky,andthecapsweretoostrong.Itwasn’tuntilItravelledtoNewZealandthatIfoundmyperfectdrink,theflatwhite!!!ItwaseverythingIhadbeentryingtoconveytothebaristasallthoseyears.WhenIreturnedtomylocalcafe,Ihadtoschoolthebaristastotheartandskillofmakingaflatwhite.…Theystilldon’ttotallygetitthough!NowI’mgettingreadytomovetoFrance,wheresadly,itisvirtuallyimpossibletofindaFW.LookslikeI’llbeinvestinginmyownmachine!ImissthoseamazingcoffeesinNZ!! Reply Andy Thankyouforclarifyingthemysteryinmymind!Ijustlikedrinkingcoffeebutdon’tnotknowtoomuchaboutcoffee,sothedifferencebetweenlatteandflatwhitehadconfusedmeforalongtime. Reply Bruce Iamcomingtotheconclusionthataflatwhiteissimplyaproperlymadecappuccino.Acappuccinoshouldneverhavestifffoam.ThankstoStarbucksfortheinternationalruiningofthegreatestcoffeedrink. Reply Sha Thisarticlewasveryhelpfulandgivesmeabetterappreciationofcoffeedrinks.Iamnotacoffeeexpert,butIlovetheflatwhite.Tometheflatwhiteislikeacombinationoflatteandcappuccino,butwithasmootherflavorandconsistency. Reply Carl Flatwhite?Morecoffeelessmilk. Ohlike6shotsand100mlmilk? Reply Carl Flatwhite?Morecoffeelessmilk. Reply Carl Latteistexturedmilkandespresso–right? Cappuccinoistexturedmilkandespressowithchocolatesprinkle–right? Flatwhiteisnonsense–right? Reply Susan “Latteistexturedmilkandespresso–right?Cappuccinoistexturedmilkandespressowithchocolatesprinkle–right?Flatwhiteisnonsense–right?:”N-o.Yourreply?Thatwasnonsense. Reply Daniel lol–IfindAustraliansandtheirobsessionwithcoffeetobesofunny.It;smilkandcoffee–alsotheideaofatinylittlecupofcoffeessooddtome–ittakes10minutestomakeitand30secondtodrinkit–itgoescoldbeforeyoucanevenenjoyit.Whynotjustmakeapropercupofcoffee? Reply Ed Whatgetslostinallthisisthebase,areallygoodpulledshotofespresso.Milkcoversalotofillsbutanygoodcoffeedrinkisbetterwithagood,balancedshotofespresso.Maybesomeshouldconsideracorridorwhichhasequalpartsofespressoandmilk,thenyoucanmorefullyenjoythecomplexitiesofthecoffeebean. Reply Mal OverhereintheUKIamabsolutelyfedupwithreturningmycoffeeafterspooningallthefrothfromthetopofalatte,insomeplacestheircupsizesarethatsmallthatifyouordera“regular”coffeeyouareleftwithverylittlecoffeetodrinkafterremovingthefroth.OnlyyesterdayIwasservedamediumlatteinCostawithabout50mmoffrothonthetop!. Thetemperature…wellIwishIhadapoundforeverylukewarmeffortIhavereturned. Reply CancelreplyComment*Name Email Δ Cancel