weiji 危机(危機) Crisis = Opportunity?

The usual meaning of 危機is 危險、困難的關頭, in which 危means either 危險("danger") or 艱困("difficult, in hardship"), and 機means 關頭(" ... Forums Dictionarysearch:  English-Spanish English-French English-Italian English-German English-Dutch English-Russian English-Portuguese English-Polish English-Romanian English-Swedish English-Czech English-Greek English-Turkish English-Chinese English-Japanese English-Korean English-Arabic Spanish-English French-English Italian-English German-English Dutch-English Russian-English Portuguese-English Polish-English Romanian-English Swedish-English Czech-English Greek-English Turkish-English Chinese-English Japanese-English Korean-English Arabic-English Spanish-French Spanish-Portuguese Spanish-Catalan French-Spanish Portuguese-Spanish Englishdefinition Englishsynonyms Englishcollocations Englishusage Italiandefinition Spanishdefinition Spanishsynonyms Catalandefinition Spanish French Italian Login Register What'snew Search Rules/Help/FAQ Members InterfaceLanguage Menu Login Register Installtheapp Install OtherLanguageForums 中文+方言(Chinese) Youareusinganoutofdatebrowser.Itmaynotdisplaythisorotherwebsitescorrectly.Youshouldupgradeoruseanalternativebrowser. weiji危机(危機)Crisis=Opportunity? Threadstarter ThomasK Startdate May14,2020 T ThomasK SeniorMember (near)Kortrijk,Belgium Belgium,Dutch Iloveetymologyandsemantics,butIshrinkbackfrom"easy"orfolketymology.MayIthereforeaskwhetheritiscorrectthatyourkanji/ideogramfor"crisis"canalsomean"chance"?   Ghabi SeniorMember HongKong Cantonese Hello.Pleasesee: VictorH.Mair, danger+opportunity≠crisis HowamisunderstandingaboutChinesecharactershasledmanyastray   T ThomasK SeniorMember (near)Kortrijk,Belgium Belgium,Dutch DidIhaveahunchthatitwasalltoonicetobetrue???Thanksalot!(WhatIdidlikeabouttheword"crisis"inGreek(and...)thatithastodowithsieving,whichisprobablyundeniable...))   Ghabi SeniorMember HongKong Cantonese Allisnotlost.TheChineseforumisahotbedofpseudo-linguisticsandfakeknowledge,andsomemembersareapparentlyonamissiontospreadthem.Theirpostsalwayscontainabundantquotations(googled-copied-and-pasted,frombooksthey'veneverreadorevenheardintheirlife),andalwayslookimpressive.Theymakethemostbasicmistakes,butwhocares.Ifyouhangaroundherelongenough,theywillbecomeyour"teachers".Theyalwaystrytoteach,andwon'tfailtofeedyoutheir"knowledge".Youwon'tbedisappointed.Ipromise.   S Skatinginbc SeniorMember Mandarin VictorH.Mair(ProfessorofChineseLanguageandLiterature,UniversityofPennsylvania)wroteinthearticle"danger+opportunity≠crisis": Asidefromthenotionof“incipientmoment”or“crucialpoint”discussedabove,thegraphforjībyitselfindicates“quick-witted(ness);resourceful(ness)”and“machine;device.”Incombinationwithothergraphs,however,jīcanacquirehundredsofsecondarymeanings.Itisabsolutelycrucialtoobservethatjīpossessesthesesecondarymeaningsonlyinthemultisyllabictermsintowhichitenters.Tobespecificinthematterunderinvestigation,jīaddedtohuì(“occasion”)createstheMandarinwordfor“opportunity”(jīhuì),butbyitselfjīdoesnotmean“opportunity.” Mair'sstatementseemsrathermisleadinginmyopinion.Tome(anativespeakerofChinese),機byitselfcertainlycouldmean"opportunity".Forexample, 此機不可多得=Thisopportunitydoesnotcomebyoften. Also, 機不可失=機會難得，不可錯失 機不旋踵=機會難得，一瞬即逝 乘機坐大=利用機會壯大勢力 商機=businessopportunities 良機=goodopportunity 機緣=機會和因緣(e.g.,《三國演義》孤窮劉備，久欲投於門下，奈機緣未遇。

) 趁機=利用機會(e.g.,《紅樓夢》跟前不過幾個心腹常侍小婢，老尼便趁機說。

) That機byitselfcouldmean機會seemstobebasicknowledgeofChinesetome.Idon'texpectDr.Mairwouldhavemade"themostbasicmistakes".So,istheresomethingIfailtosee?   yuechu SeniorMember Canada Canada,English Hello,Skatinginbc! ItcaninCantonese:不管有沒有機 (likeinthelyricsof岁月如歌by陈奕迅,accordingtothatthread),butI'mnotsureaboutsingle-characterusageof機inMandarin.   S Skatinginbc SeniorMember Mandarin Thankyou,yuechu.That'sgoodtoknow. Ithink機meaning"opportunity"isaboundmorphemein(modern)Mandarin,butitisafreemorphemeinClassicalChinese. Note: Although物"thing"ismoreorlessaboundmorphemeinmodernMandarin,itdoesnottakeawaythefactthat寶物("treasure")iscomposedofelementsthatsignify"precious"and"thing".Bythesametoken,機"opportunity"beingaboundmorphemeinMandarinhasnothingtodowithwhy機doesnotmean"opportunity"in危機(“crisis”).   Lastedited:May15,2020 S Skatinginbc SeniorMember Mandarin 晉.葛洪《抱朴子·交際》：有利則獨專而不相分,有害則苟免而不相恤;或事便則先取而不讓,值機會則賣彼以安此。

請問:句中的「機會」是什麼意思?百度百科說是「時機」(opportunity,occasion;e.g.,適逢其會),我認為是「危險的厄運」。

對比:利(good)vs.害(bad),事便(good)vs.機會(bad) 或=有 事=工作、職務 便=機會(opportunity;e.g.,因利乘便) 值=遇到、面對 機=危險(dangerous;e.g.,《淮南子》處高而不機) 會=厄運(adversity;e.g.,百六有會) 你們怎麼看呢?   Lamb67 SeniorMember China/Mandarin Yoursisimplausiblebecauseitsoundsredundantclunkyawkard.Inyoursofdangerous+adversity,theyoverlapsomuchinmeaningthatitsoundslike palpablenonsense.😁   Lastedited:May15,2020 S Skatinginbc SeniorMember Mandarin Lamb67said: palpablenonsense.😁 Clicktoexpand... Letmetryagain: 值機會則賣彼以安此=遇到險厄就出賣別人來保自己安穩 機=險(dangerous;hazardous) 會=厄(通「阨」,關口、關劫、困境"adversity;adifficultsituation,especiallyonethatiscausedbybadluck") Thenotionof"dangerousadversity"canbefoundin: (1)TheIChingWorkbook:Ifyoucontinueonyourchosencourseofactionthistime,youwillplaceyourselfinthepathofdangerousadversity. (2)BrevityofHumanLife:Adangerousadversity,aswellasadangeroussuccess,maybetheportionofmanyafamily. 我認為這句的「機會」不可能指"opportunity"，因為: (1)前句已有個"opportunity"了:「或事便則先取而不讓」=有工作機會(opportunity)就先奪取而不謙讓。

好的時機是opportunity;壞的運氣是「厄運」，走霉運。

==>對比:便(in事便)vs.會(in機會). (2)老想往上爬(或事便則先取而不讓)的人,遇到"時機"(適當的時刻或機會)，想的應該不是「求安穩」(賣彼以安此)而是如何升遷。

一有時機就貶低別人來抬高自己 一有時機就出賣別人來保自己安穩 遇到險厄就貶低別人來抬高自己 遇到險厄就出賣別人來保自己安穩   Lastedited:May16,2020 S Skatinginbc SeniorMember Mandarin 再加一個理由: (3)機會=險厄(A:危險的困境關劫、危險的情勢;B:險要的關口、要害)與當時(i.e.,西晉)「機會」的其他用法較扯得上邊: 西晉.陳壽《三國志》「漢中則益州咽喉，存亡之機會，若無漢中則無蜀矣。

」==>存亡的險要關口,存亡的要害。

欲罷不能,再添一項: (4)這個爭議中的句子不算,宋朝之前有「機會」指opportunity的例子嗎?   Lastedited:May17,2020 SuperXW SeniorMember Beijing/HongKong Mandarin yuechusaid: ItcaninCantonese:不管有沒有機 (likeinthelyricsof岁月如歌by陈奕迅,accordingtothatthread),butI'mnotsureaboutsingle-characterusageof機inMandarin. Clicktoexpand... Thelyricsmakesapunwhere機meansboth機會(chance)and飛機(airplane). ThesongwaswrittenforaHongKongTVdrama"衝上雲霄(TriumphintheSkies)"whosethemeisaboutcivilaviation.Thelinewaswrittendeliberatelylikethat. Thelinedoesn'tmakethatsenseinMandarin.   Lamb67 SeniorMember China/Mandarin 气机,aterminTraditionalChineseMedicinewouldbeacorroborationfortheargumentinthearticle.   S Skatinginbc SeniorMember Mandarin Icoinedaword"胃機"andthengoogleditandfoundsomebodyalreadyhadit: 陈道隆_医案_中医世家:肝阳犯胃，胃机不调。

藿朴夏苓汤-医学百科:神疲不振，胃机不协。

AndIcoinedanotherword"肝機"andfound"肝機不暢"inGoogle.Finally,IcoinedawordthatcouldnotbefoundinGoogle,namely,"性機".AndIthinkifIsay"長年腎虧,性機失調",peoplewouldautomaticallyunderstandwhatImeanby"性機". Mypoint:Itisatypeofword-formationapparentlyopenforinnovation."機"meaning"opportunity"behaveslikewise:IfIsay"在私人公司上班,進修機會較少,相對而言,在國營企業任職,學機較多",Ithinkpeoplewouldunderstand"學機"means"學習機會"inthiscontext. 機("opportunity")predates機會("opportunity").Forexample, 唐.房玄齡等《晉書》待可乘之機，然後一舉蕩滅。

唐.李延壽《南史》潛構崎嶇，過於履虎，乘機奮發，義不圖全。

元末明初.羅貫中《三國演義》今操糧草已盡，正可乘此機會，兩路擊之。

Unlike"plane"beingashortenedformof"airplane",機("opportunity")isNOTashortenedformof機會("opportunity").Justas大象("elephant")isadisyllabificatedformof象("elephant"),sois機會("opportunity")adisyllabificatedformof機("opportunity").Dr.Mair'sargumentsseemtohavefailedtotakeintoaccounttheprocessofdisyllabificationinChinesemorphology. VictorH.Mair: Thereisnotraditionaluseofjīthatmeans“opportunity”perse.JīhuìisaneologismcoinedtotranslatetheEnglishword“opportunity.” Clicktoexpand... Idon'tknowwhatDr.Mairistalkingabout.Doeshemean機會in《三國演義》今操糧草已盡，正可乘此機會，兩路擊之doesnotmean"opportunity"?Doeshemean羅貫中wasabletoreadEnglishandcoinedtheword機會asatranslation?Whatdoes機會in乘此機會meananyway? VictorH.Mair: Ifirstencounteredthiscuriousspecimenofallegedorientalwisdomabouttenyearsago...thedamagefromthiskindofpseudo-profundityhasreachedsuchgrossproportionsthatIfeelobliged,asaresponsibleSinologist,totakecounteraction...Finally,tothosewhowouldpersistindisseminatingthepotentiallyperilous,fundamentallyfallacioustheorythat“crisis”=“danger”+“opportunity,”pleasedon'tblameitonChinese! Clicktoexpand... IwishDr.Mair,aresponsibleSinologist,couldhavetolduswhereJohnF.Kennedygottheideathat"intheChineselanguage,theword'crisis'iscomposedoftwocharacters,onerepresentingdangerandtheother,opportunity."Evidently,itwasfromaChineseperson,notanyChineseperson,butawell-versedscholarwhosenamewasnoneotherthanDr.TsiangTingfu(蔣廷黻博士,中華民國駐聯合國代表,台灣中央研究院院士).   Lastedited:May17,2020 S Skatinginbc SeniorMember Mandarin Hello, HowtoconveytheChinese(e.g.,蔣廷黻's)conceptof「危機就是危險加機會」inEnglishsothatitwouldnotlosetheintendedrhetoricaleffectnorleadtomisunderstandingaboutChinesecharacters(cf.VictorH.Mair's"danger+opportunity≠crisis")? ContextExample: 危機就是危險加機會。

「危」這個漢字有危險的意思;「機」這個漢字有機會的意思。

遇到「危機」,有人只看到前頭的「危險」,有人卻能發現後面的「機會」。

RhetoricalEffect:Tochallengetheaudiencetothinkoutsideofthebox ItisaChineserhetoricdevicecalled「巧釋妙解」--aplayonafixedlexicalitem;reanalyzing,reinterpreting,andgivingnewlighttoapreexistinglexicalitem. VictorH.MaironthenotionthattheChinesewordfor“crisis”危機iscomposedof危"danger"and機"opportunity": Itappears,oftencompletewithChinesecharacters,onthecoversofbooks,onadvertisementsforseminars,onexpensivecoursesfor“thinkingoutsideofthebox,”...Thiscatchyexpression(Crisis=Danger+Opportunity)hasrapidlybecomenearlyasubiquitousasTheTaoofPooh... Clicktoexpand... "危機就是危險加機會"challengestheaudiencetothinkoutsideofthebox--outsideoftheusualmeaningof危機,outsideoftheconventionalmorphologicalanalysisofthepreexistingword.Unfortunately,Dr.Mair'sarticleconfineditselftotheinsideofthebox(i.e.,itsconventionalmorphology)andfailedtotouchonorremindreadersoftherhetorical-pragmaticanalysisofthatstatement.Itisregrettablebecauseitisliketreatingarhetoricalquestionasatruequestionordeemingametaphoruntruefromaliteralpointofview--totallymissingthepoint.   Lastedited:May19,2020 september_fish SeniorMember Chinese Infact,theconceptof“危机就是危险加机会”isnotcorrect. Itistruethat“危”means“dangerous”inChinese,but"机"hereactuallymeans"moment"or"occasion".So"危机"meansdangerousmoment.Andinthiscaseitiscorrecttotranslateitinto"crisis". Whenweuse"危机",weonlyrefertodanger,andithasnothingtodowithopportunity. I'vecheckedthetermonBaiduBaikeandotheronlineChinesedictionaries,"机会"nevershowupinthedefinitionof"危机". Besides,Ifoundanarticlethatmighthelpyouunderstanditbetter. 科学网—我试图向美国人解释“危机”-武夷山的博文 发现我好像可以用中文解释…… “危机就是危险加机会”这个说法本身就是不对的。

这里的“机”并不表示“机会”，而是“时候”。

最多解读成“时机”，但其实“时机”也是有机会的含义在里面的，所以也不太合适。

实际上我们在用这个词的时候，语境里并没有“机会”的意思。

他破产了→他遭遇了人生最大的危机 这里跟“机会”完全没有关系。

包括“危机四伏”这样的成语，实际上也都跟“机会”没关系。

可能理解成“危险加机会”感觉很有哲理，但其实中文里并没有这层含义，最多是主观添加的引申义。

  T ThomasK SeniorMember (near)Kortrijk,Belgium Belgium,Dutch Iwasnotawareyouhavebeenexchangingalotinthemeantime.I'llseewhetherIcanfollow,butthanksalottobeginwith!   S Skatinginbc SeniorMember Mandarin A:我害怕單獨和他在一起。

他的特色我早有耳聞。

B:什麼特色? A:特色就是特別好色。

B:不對。

特色的正確意思是獨特的色彩風格。

"特"指"獨特","色"指"風格"。

A:(心想:你真懂中文嗎?竟然沒聽出是一種「別解」的修辭格。

太不識趣了!) 特色reinterpretedas"特別好色"isanactof"別解",arhetoricaldevice(修辭格)involvingreanalysisofthemorphologytogivenewmeaningstoapreexistinglexicalitem."危機就是危險加機會"involves「別解」(reanalysisandreinterpretation)and「雙關」(wordplay:有人只看到前頭的「危險」,有人卻能發現後面的「機會」==>機comesafter危intheword危機;"Opportunity"comesafter"danger"inacrisis.) Iamgladthisthreadisfinallyre-openfordiscussion.Itisbynomeansgenuinescholarshipinmyviewtogoogle-copy-and-pastethelinktoanarticle,treatitasthefinalsay,andthenclosethethreaddownsothatcontradictingevidencecannotbepresentedandclaimsaboutfactscannotbechallenged.Itisinessencepromotingabiblicaltruth.Nottomentionitisanon-peerreviewedessaywithoutadequatein-textcitationsandbibliography,moreofanopinionpiecethanaresearcharticle. ThomasKsaid: Iloveetymologyandsemantics,butIshrinkbackfrom"easy"orfolketymology.MayIthereforeaskwhetheritiscorrectthatyourkanji/ideogramfor"crisis"canalsomean"chance"? Clicktoexpand... TheChinesewordfor"crisis"危機consistsoftwocharacters,thatis危and機.Theusualmeaningof危機is危險、困難的關頭,inwhich危meanseither危險("danger")or艱困("difficult,inhardship"),and機means關頭("pivotalorcrucialmoment").However,becausethecharacter機canalsomean"opportunity"(asin可乘之機),theword危機canbereanalyzedas危險+機會inacontextthatcallsforarhetorical-pragmanticeffectofchallengingtheaudiencetothinkoutsideof"thebox"(i.e.,itsusualmeaning,itsusualmorphology).   Lastedited:May22,2020 Ghabi SeniorMember HongKong Cantonese Skatinginbcsaid: theword危機canbereanalyzedas危險+機會inacontextthatcallsforarhetorical-pragmanticeffectofchallengingtheaudiencetothinkoutsideof"thebox"(i.e.,itsusualmeaning,itsusualmorphology). Clicktoexpand... You'retheonlyonewhokeepstalkingabout"re-analysis".Butwe'renottalkingaboutwordplayhere.We'renottalkingaboutpunninghere.We'retalkingaboutthemisunderstandingaboutthemorphologyoftheMandarinwordwēijī.We'retalkingaboutgenuinemisunderstandinghere.We'renottalkingabout"notgettingthejoke"here. september_fishsaid: Itistruethat“危”means“dangerous”inChinese,but"机"hereactuallymeans"moment"or"occasion".So"危机"meansdangerousmoment.Andinthiscaseitiscorrecttotranslateitinto"crisis". Clicktoexpand... Thankyouforprovidingsomemuch-neededcommonsense.Thisisrefreshing.   S Skatinginbc SeniorMember Mandarin Example1 A:人活著就該要有使命感,否則就與行屍走肉無二。

「生命」就是「生存」加上「使命」--生下來為某使命而活著。

病毒之所以被認為有生命跡象，就是因它帶有為其物種繁衍的使命。

B:不對。

字典說「生命」是「生存壽命」或「生存機能」的意思。

「命」指「壽命」或「機能」。

稍有常識的人都知道「生命」的「命」不是指「使命」。

A:(心想:真不識趣!竟沒聽出「生命就是生存加使命」是一種想要達到某種語用效果的說法。

正因它與一般理解有出入,才更能刺激大腦、撼動思維、銘刻於心。

) Example2 A:美國在阿富汗的戰爭是沒有勝利可言的戰爭。

「勝利」是「勝於利」的意思。

「勝」指「獲勝」;「利」指「利益」。

贏了卻得不償失、兩敗俱傷、對己或關心的人事沒有助益,這樣的結局不叫勝利。

B:不對。

字典說「勝利」就是「打敗對方」。

一般人對這個詞的理解並不強調一定要有「利益」。

A:(心想:真不識趣!竟沒聽出「勝利就是勝於利」是一種想要達到某種語用效果的說法。

正因它不是一般的理解,才有開闢新思路、引進新角度、創造新哲理的語用效果。

) Example3 A:危機就是危險加機會。

「危」有危險的意思;「機」有機會的意思。

遇到「危機」,有人只看到前頭的「危險」,有人卻能發現後面的「機會」。

B:不對。

稍有常識的人都知道「危機」的「機」不是指「機會」。

A:(心想:真不識趣!正因稍有常識的人都知道「危機」的「機」不是指「機會」,所以「危機就是危險加機會」顯然只是一種想要達到某種語用效果的說法。

) september_fishsaid: 理解成“危险加机会”感觉很有哲理 Clicktoexpand... "感覺很有哲理"isapragmaticeffect(語用效果)ofthestatement"危機就是危險加機會".Thespeakerobviouslyintendstowaxphilosophicalabouttheterm"危機".Inthespeaker'smind,thepragmaticeffectsoutweighitscorrectmorphology.ThelatteristypicallyNOTthemainpointinanaturaldiscoursewhereonemayencounterthestatement"危機就是危險加機會". VictorH.Mair: thiskindofpseudo-profundity...“thinkingoutsideofthebox”...Ifonewishestowaxphilosophicalaboutthejīofwēijī... Clicktoexpand... ItwouldbeanuttermisunderstandingoftheChineselanguageifonethinksthatduetothemorphologyoftheterm"危機"initsusualsense(i.e.,"crisis"),thelanguagebarsphilosophicalwaxing(toenhanceprofundityorout-of-the-boxthinking)aboutthe"機"of"危機"(i.e.,reinterpreting機as"opportunity"insteadof"pivotalmoment").WhenaChinesespeakersays"危機就是危險加機會"(athought-provoking,profoundstatementinthatthecharacter危indeedcansignify"danger"andthecharacter機indeedcancarrythesenseof"opportunity"),itisusuallymeanttobetaken"philosophically"(orfiguratively)ratherthanliterallyinanaturaldiscourse. Ghabisaid: You'retheonlyonewhokeepstalkingabout"re-analysis"...We'retalkingaboutthemisunderstandingaboutthemorphologyoftheMandarinwordwēijī.We'retalkingaboutgenuinemisunderstandinghere. Clicktoexpand... IkeeptalkingaboutpragmaticusagebecauseIthinkmisunderstandingaboutthemorphologyof危機stemsfromliteralinterpretationofthestatement"危機就是危險加機會".Don'tforgetyouarbitrarilyclosedthethreadandthenarbitrarilyconflatedpostsfrommultiplethreadsintoone.Eachthreadhaditsown"here",andnowyouarearbitrarilyforcingmetoacceptyour"here". VictorH.Mair: JīhuìisaneologismcoinedtotranslatetheEnglishword“opportunity.” Clicktoexpand... 機會meaning"opportunity"isnotaneologism: (宋)文天祥《與曾架閣》in《文信國公集》歲月雖多,機會甚少==>fewopportunities. (明)戴東旻《請先勦後撫疏》in《嚴州府志》此實蕩平大寇之一大機會乎==>abigopportunity.   Lastedited:May26,2020 Youmustloginorregistertoreplyhere. Share: Facebook Twitter Reddit WhatsApp Email Share Link OtherLanguageForums 中文+方言(Chinese) Top